evrv ii hy M wgwwqv evrv ii hy M wgwwqv 1 cövk-k_b

Transcription

1 evrv ii hy M wgwwqv evrv ii hy M wgwwqv 1 2 cövk-k_b

2 evrv ii hy M wgwwqv m úv`bv mỳ xß kg v Rvg k`yj Kwig evrv ii hy M wgwwqv mn hvwmzvq mvjvndïxb kwdkzj Avjg iwb `Ë cö_g cökvk gvn 1417 deª qvwi 2011 cökvkk gvgyb Ai iwk` Av`k 38 evsjvevrvi XvKv 1100 gvevbj MÖš ^Z KwgDwbqv wbeü- ^Z jlk cö Q` mgxi evdj A i web vm Av`k Kw úduvim gỳ ªY wpîkí 179/3 dwk ii cyj, XvKv 1000 g~j 200 UvKv Bazarer Juge Media (A Colloction of Essays) Edited by Sudipta Sharma & Zamshedul Karim Published by Mamun Or Rashid of Adarsha 38 Banglabazar Dhaka 1100 Bangladesh adarshabd@gmail.com www. adarshabd.wordpress.com First Edition February 2011 Price Tk. 200 :: US $ 10 ISBN evrv ii hy M wgwwqv 3 4 cövk-k_b

3 D r m M W. G vûi AjK Kzgvi `Iqvix m vi- K mijzv, D`viZv I `vwqz ev ai bzzb msáv w` q whwb Avgv `i Q o nvvr K ib P j M Qb evrv ii hy M wgwwqv 5 6 cövk-k_b

4 m~wp cövk-eqvb \ \ `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv mwjg irv wbdub \ \ mvqvbb d z : ÔivsZvq gvov hy Mi AmyLÕ Kv eix Mv qb \ \ MYgva gi `vwqz kxjzv : IqvPvi `i IqvP Kb Ri wi ivev qz di `Šm \ \ Ak xj mvwnz _ K bxjqwe : c b vmövwdi weez b I RÛvicÖm½ dvnwg`yj nk \ \ evsjv wm bgvi Ôk xjzvõ wezk I mvs wzk c Y i Av_ -ivr bwzk Zvrch Av. Avj gvgyb \ \ Rywjqvb A vmvä wk L vcv weávbx, web jv `b, bvwk wfbmö ni cövyx? mwjg irv wbdub \ \ wgwwqv I gvby li Awf hvrb : cöm½ evsjv e M mỳ xß kg v \ \ mvgvwrk hvmv hvm gva g dmeyk : wbi wjevivj hy Mi m ú K i buiqvk evab AwaKvix \ \ ievu Wwe D g vk PRwb-i mv vrkvi wgwwqv cuywrev`, ivóª Ges GKwesk kz Ki wgwwqv MYZ š i jovb fvlvš i : my`xß kg v I Gbv qzzi ingvb \ \ Free Media, Democracy and democratisation : experiences from developing countries Mohammad Sahid Ullah \ \ Winners and losers when the TV-monopoly was dissolved in Sweden Lars- Åke Engblom \ \ jlk cwiwpwz \ \ evrv ii hy M wgwwqv 7 8 cövk-k_b

5 cövk-eqvb wgwwqvi cök Z PwiÎ Ges Gi wewfbœ AvPi Yi Kvh KviY I cöfve we k ly Ki Z wek Ry o Kg Av jvpbv mgv jvpbv M elyv mfv mwgbvi wm úvwrqvg nqwb mb wesk kz Ki cö_gv a BD ivc-av gwikvq hlb _ K wgwwqv MYgvbyl K wcq b d j evrv ii ZKgv Mv q jvmv Z ïi Kij ZLb _ KB Pj Q G Kg há hv GL bv Pj Q GKB MwZ Z; bzzb bzzb gvîv wb q D Ïk, gvbyl K wgwwqvi Gme w`k m ú K m PZb K i Zvjv Ges Gi gva g Pvc cö qvm K i cöwzôvbwu K Zvi MYgyLx bxwz Z wdwi q Avbv wkš Kv Ri KvR KZUzKz n q Q Zv cökœmv c welq Lye `~ i bv wm q Avgv `i Av kcv ki gvbyl jvi KvQ _ KB hlb wgwwqvi wewfbœ AvPi Yi Kvh KviY LuvRvi e` j Kej cöksmvi evyx ïb Z nq ZLb ^vfvwekfv eb GZ GZ Kg h Ái mdjzv wb q m `n Rv M GgbwK msev`cî Zvi Av`wk K RvqMv cy ivcywi cv ë d j ÔweÁvcbc ÎÕ cwiyz n ji hlb G gvbyl jv Gi cq b m`hyw³ Lyu R cvb ZLb Avgiv nzvk bv n q cvwi bv ^vfvwekfv eb cökœ Rv M Zvn j Kb GZ Av jvpbv mgv jvpbv M elyv? Kvi Rb GZ Pzj Piv we k ly? gvby li Kv Q hw` Zv cušqv bvb bv Mj Z e Kx jvf Gme K i? cök Zc, wgwwqv K cöwzwbqz KuvUv Quov Kiv n ji g~jz hv `i Rb GZ Av qvrb mb gvbyl K G wel q m PZb Kivi g Zv K g v` vm Lye ewk nqwb Aš Z Avgv `i ` k hw`i wgwwqv K Pv L Pv L ivlvi g Zv G KvRUvI Ri wi Kbbv h gvwjk GKevi UvKvi MÜ c q Q ^vfvwekfv eb m wbr _ K KL bv Zvi PwiÎ cvëv e bv wgwwqv cöwzôv b Kg iz kªwgkivi h GKv G Kv R mywe a Ki Z cvi e bv Zv ejv hvq ZvB Kej `k K- kªvzvivb mdjfv e weov ji Mjvq N Uv cov bvi G KvRwU Ki Z cv i mgv Ri GKwU Acwinvh cöwzôvb wn m e wgwwqv K wdwi q Avb Z cv i Zvi MYgyLx bxwz Z KviY h gvbyl K wb q wgwwqv e emv K i Zviv hw` GKevi gyl wdwi q bq Zvn j m Zvi PwiÎ cvëv Z eva mgvr cwiez bi Î wgwwqv hy M hy M Ab Zg cöavb nvwzqv ii f~wgkv cvjb K i G m Q ivg gvnb, Ck ip `ª _ K ïi K i gnvz v MvÜx, jwbb ch š `L j welqwu fv jvfv eb eysv hvq Zuviv cö Z KB Zuv `i Afxó j cušqvi Rb wgwwqv K e envi K i Qb dji c q Qb nv Z nv Z ez gvb kvlyg~jk RwUj wek e e v K e` j w` q Kvw Z mgvr wewbg v Yi ÎI wgwwqv ivl Z cv i AMÖYx f~wgkv wkš Avgiv `LwQ ez gvb evrvwi wgwwqv G f~wgkv cvjb _ K hvrb hvrb `~ i Ae vb Ki Q G wgwwqv cy iv mgv Ri A_ vr RvZxq ^v _ i K_v bv f e K c v iu cyuwri Zuv e`vwib K i Pj Q cöwzwbqz ` ki Zj-M vm-e `iwe`ÿ rmn hvezxq RvZxq m ú` i vi `vwqz bv wb q K c v iu ms wzi we vi NwU q GKwU fvmev`x Lv`K mgvr cöwzôv KivB n q `uvwo q Q G wgwwqvi cöavb j Avevi GB evrv ii hy M Kg cyuwr wb q bzzb Kvb wgwwqv cöwzôv bi wu K _vkvi m vebvi mvewr iv Z b g G m Q ZvB wekí _v K GKUvB muv n jv ez gvb wgwwqv e e vi Avg~j cwiez b GRb B wgwwqv K memgq Pv L Pv L ivlv Ri wi n q c o Q Avgv `i `L Z n e wgwwqv KLb Kvb KvR Kb K i ïayb wk mvgvwrk `vwqz eva, bvwk Ab wkqy KvbwU mvsevw`kzv Avi KvbUv mvsevw`kzvi bv g Ab wkqy Z e G msμvš Av jvpbv ïay wuk qk jv Ki g a mxgve bv i L mvavi Yi g a Qwo q `qvi e e v Kiv Ri wi Kbbv cwiez b Avbvi cö kœ g~j f~wgkv h nzz mvaviy gvbyl KB cvjb Ki Z n e m nzz wgwwqvi PwiÎ m ú K Zv `i K m PZb K i Zvjv cö qvrb mevi Av M wgwwqvi Kv bv AvPiY K AwZ mijxkiy bv K i Zvi wcq bi Kvh KviY jv mevb K Rvbv bvi Rb A vw±wf, GKv Wwgwkqvb, ^ Qv mek I bvmwik mgvr K wbqwgz AvIqvR Zzj Z n e ïay mvaviy gvbyl bq, wgwwqv kªwgk Z_v mvsevw`k `ii mgv R Zv `i `vwqz eva m ú K m PZb K i Zvjv Ri wi Avi Gme Ki Z cvi j fzievwn i h Pvc m wó n e Zv Z wgwwqv Zvi PwiÎ cvëv Z eva n e e j Avgiv wek vm Kwi hv n e Kvw Z mgvr wewbg v Yi c _ me P q eo GKwU c` c G wpš v _ KB cö_g KvR wn m e Avgiv KwgDwbqvi 1 eüziv GKz k eb gjv K mvg b i L jlv msmö ni KvR ïi Kwi GRb `vi n qwq mme wk K I eüz `i, hv `i jlv c o wksev K_v ï b Avgiv GKUz 1 mvsevw`kzv wefvm, PÆMÖvg wek we` vj qi QvÎQvÎx `i msmvb evrv ii hy M wgwwqv 9 10 cövk-k_b

6 GKUz K i wgwwqv K wpb Z wklwq Avgiv Póv K iwq Zv `i mevb K GK gjv Ui wfzi R ov Ki Z cö_ g KvRwU hz mnr g b n qwqj, Zv h ZZUv mnr bq Kv R bvgvi ci Zv nv o nv o Ui c qwq cövq `o eqi Av M ebwui cwikíbv Kiv n ji Zv GLb Av jvi gyl `L Q klch š Avgiv h cy ivcywi mdj m `vwe Kie bv Z e mewgwj q Avgiv A bkvs kb mš ó MÖš fy³ wbeü jv Z wbeükviiv ez gvb evrvwi wgwwqvi wewfbœ w`k Zz j aivi cvkvcvwk Gi m vebv Ges cvvk-`k K- kªvzv I mvsevw`k `i KiYxq m ú K Av jvpbv K i Qb wbeü jvi g a dvnwg`yj nk-gi ÒAk xj mvwnz _ K bxjqwe : c b vmövwdi weez b I RÛvicÖm½Ó kxl K jlvwu wgwwqviqvp cwîkvq Ges mwjg irv wbdub-gi ÒRywjqvb A vmvä wk L vcv weávbx, web jv `b, bvwk wfbmö ni cövyx?ó kxl K jlvwu wewwwbdr-g ( B Zvg a cökvwkz n q Q GQvov Av iv K qkwu jlvi Ask we kl wewfbœ RvqMvq cökvwkz n ji wbeükviiv GB eb qi Rb m jv K bzzb K i ˆZwi K i w` q Qb A b KB GK K_v Z jlv cvwv q w` q Avgv `i K ZÁ K i Qb Zuv `i jlv `xn w`b d j ivl Z eva niqvq Avgiv gvcöv_ x Avjv`vfv e mybwwk cö dmi jvm -I K-i K_v ej Z nq GB e eq mi whwb GK `k _ K Av ik ` k Ny i Ny i fv jvfv e wr ivevi mgquzkzi cvb bv, wzwbi GK K_v Z jlv cvwv q w` q Avgv `i K ZÁ K i Qb mybwwk Z_v vwû bwfqvb wgwwqv m ú K aviyv c Z wbeüwu cvvk `i mvnvh Ki e A b KB e Zvi Rb K_v w` qi kl ch š jlv w` Z cv ibwb fwel Z Zv `i K Avgiv cv k cve m cöz vkv _vkj mỳ xß kg v deª qvwi 2011 evrv ii hy M wgwwqv cövk-k_b

7 `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv mwjg irv wbdub ˆKwdqZ I K ZÁZv GLv b h-av jvpbvi Abywjwc ck KiwQ, Av qvrk `i w`k _ K Zvi wba vwiz welq wqj : ÒA_ bwzk I e emv welqk mvsevw`kzvi i Z Ó GUv wqj ivrkvnx Z Kg iz mvsevw`k `i cöwk Y-Kg m~wpi GKwU Awa ekb Av qvrk wq jb: ivrkvnxi m Uvi di KwgDwb Kkb A vû W fjc g U (wmwmww evsjv `k : GwU Av qvwrz n qwqj BD ivcxq BDwbq bi A_ -mvnv h GB Av jvpbv Kiv n qwqj 26 k RyjvB 2007 Zvwi L, evsjv ` k ÔA ±vei gnvmskuõ (wbdub, 2008P) ciez x gnv-ri wi Ae vq GUv g b ivl j A bk K_vi we kl Zvrch evsv hv e e j Avgvi aviyv Avwg Avgvi gvevbj dv b (wmçwb G -nvb WªW) ez gvb Av jvpbv ikw K iwqjvg Zv Z h ÔI qf mvdûõ dvbjuv `uvovq muv gvu `yb NÈv 29 wgwbu 52 m K Ûi cöwk Y-Abyôv bi ïi Z Dcw Z mvsevw`ke ` G K G K Zuv `i cwipq `b Ges K Kxfv e mvsevw`kzvq G jb Zv ms c, cvjvμ g Zz j a ib ZZ Y 22 wgwbu 47 m KÛ cvi n q Q Gici Av qvrk `i c _ K Rbve Gm. Gg. gwndwïb Dcw Z mvsevw`k `i K ab ev`m~pk wkqy K_vevZ v e jb, Zvici Avgv K Avnevb Rvbvb Avgvi Av jvpbv ïi Kivi Rb Avgvi Av jvpbv ïi nq 23 wgwbu 06 m KÛ _ K kl nq 2 N Uv 19 wgwbu 29 m K Û A_ vr, gvu 01 NÈv 53 wgwb Ui g Zv Av jvpbv Avgvi Avgvi Av jvpbvi g a g a mvsevw`ke ` hv `y-pviuv K_v e j Qb Avgv K cökœ Kivi Dwmjvq, ZvI GB mgqkv ji Aš f~ ³ Avgvi Av jvpbv kl niqvi ci, 2 NÈv 19 wgwbu 30 m KÛ _ K ïi nq cö kœvëi ce GB c e mvsevw`kiv hme cökœ K ib mm ei DËi Kv_vI-ev cv`uxkv AvKv i, Kv_v Kv_vI Av jvpbvi g~j eqv bi duv K duv K XywK q w` qwq j vcu c Av jvpbvi AwWI ï b ï b cö Z K iwq cy iv Av jvpbvwui ûeû mgqvw¼z-abywjwc me ÎB cö Z K Aby Q `i k l 3q eübxi fz i AwWIdvB ji mgqv¼ `Lv bv n q Q Ô[NÈv:wgwbU: m KÛ]Õ AvKv i Abywjwc cöyq bi ci cy iv U UUv K mvgwmökfv e NlvgvRv K iwq NlvgvRv ej Z cöavbz evûj kã-evk -evk vsk ev` w` qwq KviY G jv bnvzb K_vi evsv, ev K i g` Kv_vI-ev cybi w³-gvî w`we ev` `Iqv hvq Gm ei evb i Kv_vI Kv_vI mvgvb Gw`K-Iw`K (Av Mi kã c i, c iiuv Av M BZ vw`) K iwq wkqy wkqy RvqMvq gvgywj `yb-gkuv kã hvm-we qvm Ki Z n q Q mvejxjfv e covi ^v _ G me cwigvr bv wpý w` q wb ` k Kwiwb, A iweb vm cv Q wpý-kèwkz n q c o wkš, me ÎB gy Li K_vi ˆewkó h_vmva ervq ivlvi Póv K iwq g~j e³ Zv K AweK Zfv e nvwri Kivi we kl ZvwM ` cviz-c kã-evk -web v m nvz w`bwb Avcwb-Zzwgi i -PÊvwjI givgz Ki Z hvbwb P `ªwe `y cö qv Mi ÎI bv K_vi gvslv b dvb Avmvi Kvi Y ev Ab Kv bv Kvi Y K_vi cybive wëi d j evk fvov-fvov n q co j muv K givgz K i w` qwq ev K i mvgvb Zg A_ MZ Kg ewk bv-k ib, bv-ejv Kv bv kã bzzb K i hvm bv-k ib wkš Gme cwigvr bv Kv bv m úv`bvwpý w` q cö`k b Kwiwb Z e Ab Î h Kv bv bv-ejv K_v Kv_vI hvm Ki Z n j me `vb Z Zxq eübxi fz i Zv w` qwq Kv_vI Kv_vI wbzvš evûj ev wew ß g b niqvq A bk K_v ev` w` qwq m Î, wîwe `y (...) w` q ev` `Iqv K_v jv cöwz vcb K iwq Avgvi Ges mvsevw`k `i ci úi-ejv K_vi wc Vi K_v jv GKUz QvU ni d euv qi gvwr b GKUz Wv b Pvwc q, gv b B Û U K i, `wl qwq mlv b ÔmibÕ gv b eys Z n e Ô mwjg irv wbdubõ Av jvpbvq e eüz Bs iwr K_v jv A bk ÎB evsjv K i w` qwq Uªwbs qi e` j ewkifvm ÎB ÔcÖwk YÕ K iwq, ÔBb Rbv ijõ K ÔmvaviY A _ Õ K iwq; ÔwnDR PÄÕ K Ôwecyj cwiez bõ K iwq; ÔBÝcvqviÕ K ÔAbycÖvwYZÕ K iwq; ÔG mbwkqvj AvB UgÕ K ÔAZ vek K wrwbmõ K iwq, ÔB UviwfDÕ K Ômv vrkviõ K iwq, Ômvc vbõ K ÔmieivnÕ K iwq, ÔA _vwiwuõ K ÔKZ Z -KZ c Õ K iwq, ÔB KvbwgK A vû UªW wi cvwu sõ K ÔA_ bxwz I e emvevwyr welqk wi cvwu sõ K iwq GiKg Av iv A bk K ZÁZv RvbvB GB my hv M wmwmww evsjv ` ki cöwz, Gi KY avi, Avgvi ønfvrb cöv³b QvÎ, Rbve Mvjvg gvë Rvi cöwz Avgvi Av ik wcöq (cöv³b) QvÎ, GbwUwf-i mvsevw`k, Rbve AvivdvZ Avjx wmïxk cö_ g GKwU Abywjwc cöyqb K i w` qwq jb AZ š cwikªg I wbôvi mv _ muv wqj nv Z jlv muv K g~j AwWIi mv _ gjv Z wm q `wl Zvi P q wb R ï b ï b mivmwi Kw úduv i wj LB dwj GB cvmjvwg Ki Z wm q Avgvi cöpzi mgq I kªg e _v M Q Avivdv Zi cwikª gi cöwz Dchy³ we epbvi `Lv Z cvwiwb Zvi P q Avivdv Zi AbywjwcUv K úvr K i wb q Zvici g~j AwWI ï b ï b muv K cö qvrbg Zv cwigvr bv K i wb jb n Zv Avivdv Zi Kv Q Avgvi K ZÁZv A kl Ges Zuvi Kv Q gvcöv_ xi e U 22 Rvbyqvwi 2011 ivrkvnx wek we` vjq evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv

8 m~îcvz gwndwïb: AvR K Avgv `i gv S we klá-av jvpk wn m e Dcw Z Av Qb, Avwg Av MB e jwq, ivrkvnx wek we` vj qi MY hvmv hvm [I mvsevw`kzv] wefv Mi wk K, wewkó MYgva g-m elk, Ges Avcbviv Zuv K A b KB P bb, Dwb `xn w`b a i jlv jwli mv _ RwoZ Av Qb, mwjg irv wbdub m vi Avwg m vi K AvR K Zuvi cöwk Y- mkb ïi Kivi Rb Aby iva Rvbvw Q [00:23:05] we klázvi aviyv gwndwïb hv ej jb, me K_v wvk bv cö_g K_v n jv, Avwg Ôwe kláõ bb wøzxq K_v, `xn w`b a i jlv jwl Kwi, GUvI wvk bv jlv jwl Kiv ej Z huv evsvq, m ikg Kv bv jlv jwl Avgvi Kivi G hver Kv j Zgb ikw bvb UzKUvK UzKUvK jlv jwl Kiv nq Avi, ÔA b KB [Avgv K] P bbõ GUvI wvk bv GLvbKvi ewkifvmb Avgv K m ez P bb bv AvwgI mevi gy Li m ½ cwiwpz bb A b Ki mv _ UzKUvK cwiwpz Aí-mvgvb [00:23: 52] Avi, GLv b Av jvpbv Ki Z Avwg Lye GKUv RyZ cvw Q bv mkvj _ K e wó-ev`j, `wi Uwi wg j Avwg Zv a i wbjvg, GLv b Zgb wkqy AvR K n e-u e bv Avgvi ek m `nb `Lv w` qwqj g bi g a, GLv b Av `Š Kv bv Av jvpbv AvR K n e wkbv G mg wg j Avwg h ikg gvbwmk Ae vq AvR K AvwQ, Avgvi w`k _ K Lye K_v ejvi AvKv v bvb G ikg GKUv `uvov Q Ae v Avwg Avm j wbwðz bv, h Av jvpbvuv AvR K GLv b Kivi K_v muv Z Avm jb wmwmww [ m Uvi di KwgDwb Kkb A vû W fjc g U] ev Avgiv KZUzKz AvMÖnx [00:24:44] mvsevw`kzvi wk KZv KiwQ A bk w`b a ib cövq ev iv- Z iv eqi a i wkš, we klázvi Kv bv e vcvi bvb GLv b G Rb h, we klázvi aviyvuvb GKUv AvcwËKi aviyv 1 GB Rb AvcwËKi h, 1 nv ZKj gi wk v ev KvwiMwi wk vi Î KD we klá n q DV ZB cv ib Zv Z K i gywp, mybcvi, `wr, QyZvi, Kvgvi, Kzgvi, ZuvwZ, M ncwipvwikv BZ vw` ai bi gvbylr bi g a A bk KB AZ š b vh fv e Ôwe kláõ bv gi gh v`v `Iqv DwPZ wkš muv Kwi bv Avgiv Ôwe kláõ ej Z Avgiv eb-lvzv-kvmr-kjg-a i-cöeü- Awf ` f i RM Zi gvbyl `i K_vB ey S _vwk GB RM Zi A bk KI b vh Z, Zuv `i we kl KvwiMwi Áv bi Kvi Y, Ôwe kláõ we epbv Kivi KviY _vk Z cv i mycövpxb ms Z ev j vwub ev wmök fvlvi cwêzmy GiKg we kl Ái ` óvš n Z cv ib MwYZ, imvqb, c`v_ we` v A_ev MwY Zi ÎI GiKg Ôwe kláõ Av Qb wkš, cwievi mgvr mviv `ywbqvi jvk (ev mviv ` ki jvk) we klfv e KD wkqy Rv bb bv, Avi Aí wkqy jvk n Qb ÔG cvu Õ ev Ôwe kláõ GB aviyvuvb Avgv `i K A bk gykwk j d j `q bvbvb w`k _ K gykwk j d j `q ZLb evwk `i wkqy KiYxq _v K bv evwk `i Kv bv KZ e _v K bv evwk `i KvR nq AbymiY Kiv kvbv ZvB bv? Ges Zuviv a ib bb, Zuv `i wkqy Kivi bvb Zuv `i wkqy ejvi bvb Ôwe kláõiv hv ej eb, Zuviv muv ïb eb Ges mb Abymv i Zuviv Pj eb [00:25:48] GUv n Q mb aviyv, h aviyv Aí wkqy we kl Ái nv Z Avgv `i K, MvUv mgvr K, mu c `Iqvi GKUv e e v K i ZLb Avcwb `L eb, ivrbxwz Z ek wkqy Ôwe kláõ Av Qb A_ bxwz wel q Ôwe kláõ Av Qb mvsevw`kzv wel h Ôwe kláõ Av Qb me wel qib Ôwe kláõ Av Qb IbvivB Uwjwfk b K_v ej eb IbvivB cwîkvq jlv jwl Ki eb IbvivB ` ki ev RU evbv eb `k Pvjv eb msweavb evbv eb [kvmb Ki eb ] [00:26:33] ev iv- Z iv KvwU jvk Zuv `i Kv bv KZ e _vk e bv wb Ri wb Ri KvRUzKz K i hviqv Qvov Avi, GKk wek-wzwik Rb jvk, Lye ewk K i ai ji ev iv- Z iv kv-i ewk n e bv mviv ` k, Guiv n eb Ôwe kláõ GUv úó ik gi AMYZvwš K g bvfw½ hw`i GUv mviv c w_ex ZB Lye cwiwpz, Pvjy GKUv g bvfw½ Pvjy Ges cwiwpz Ôwe kláõ `i Øviv Aek B Ôwe kláõivb GUv Pvjy K i Qb [00:26:51] Ôwe kláõ `i cöwzôvbi Av Q hgb a ib, mvsevw`kzv wel q Ôwe klácöwzôvbõ n jv wmgbgb wewewm Zuviv huv K ib, muv n jv Ômvsevw`KZvÕ mvbvjx msev` (ev Avgv `i h Kv bv cwîkv) Zuv `i g Zv KÕ i KvR bv-kõ i hw` Ab Kv bv wkqy K ib, Zvn j muv mvsevw`kzv bv Kbbv muv Ôwe kláõ `i ^xk Z ixwz-abykxj bi g a c o bv Z e, K_v n jv h, mvbvjx msev` ev Ab iv ixwz j Nb K ib bv G ikg bgybv Avgvi `Lv bvb Rvbv bvb Avgiv, Avgv `i cîcwîkv Ôwe kláõ `i K_vevZ v g bb Pwj [00:27:45] ms wz ivrbxwz kªyx wgwwqv ivóª ag bxwz bwzkzv g~j eva BZ vw` Î g~jz mvaviy Áv bi, ev Av j Áv bi, Z_v KvÊÁv bi RvqMv evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv

9 gyl Av jvpbv ïay gwndwï bi K_vi m~î a ib K_v jv ejwq, Zv bv Iui K_vi m~î a i myweav n jv K_v jv Zzj Z Kv bv GK w`k _ K Zzj Z nq Zv! a ib, wkqy Av jvpbv _v K Avgv `i gyl Av jvpbv gv b, Avgiv Rvwb Avgiv Kx eje Avi, huviv kv bb ZuvivI Rv bb H w`k _ K Kx Avm Q wvk bv? GB gyl Av jvpbvb Avgv `i P j a ib Avcwb UK kv hw` Lv jb Avcwb Rv bb ILv b Kx Avjvc n e Zv-I Avcwb `L Z PvB eb K Kxfv e ejj Gi g a GKUz PvÂj Ki ev GKUz PvUwb-mvjv` UvB ci Kv bv wrwbm Avm jv wkbv mvgvb Kv bv e wzμg NUj wkbv GB Avkv Z _vkv, Avi cvidi gý `Lv K Kx-iKgfv e K_v e jb K Kxfv e nvwri K ib SMovSuvwU nq wkbv KD Kv bv Kov K_v ejj wkbv GB jvb Avgv `i AvMÖn hzuzkz hv RvMvq Avgiv Zv RvwbB, cwîkvi Kjv g Kx jlv n e K Kx wjl eb ek fv jvb Rvwb [00:28:52] A_ bxwzi i Z wk Avgiv eyws bv? Zv, GLv b AvR K Avgiv GK mv _ njvg A_ bwzk Ges e emvevwyr welqk mvsevw`kzvi i Z I cö qvrbxqzv Av jvpbv Kivi Rb GKB m ½, GB ai bi mvsevw`kzvi Bmz jv Kx, Gi AvIZvi g a Kx c o GB Zv? Zv GLb Avgvi Rb wkš auvav GBUv h: A_ bxwzi i Z wk Avgiv eyws bv? gv b huviv Avgiv GLv b nvwri AvwQ? ` ki Rb ev Avgvi Rb A_ bxwz Kb Ri wi, A_ bxwzi welqavkq i Z c~y Kb, G jv wk Avgiv Rvwb bv? wbðqb Rvwb GUv bv-rvbvi Kv bv my hvm Avgvi g b nq bv Av Q Avgiv huviv GLv b nvwri AvwQ, Avgiv mevb wb Ri wb Ri g Zv K i eyws, A_ bxwz Kb i Z c~y mevb ev Sb A_ bxwz i Z c~y bv GUv hw` KD evsv Z Pvb, Zvn j eiâ kvbvi AeKvk N U [00:29:57] GLv b Avwg Ges Avcbviv h nvwri Av Qb AvR K, Gi cq b Avgv `i e w³mz A_ bwzk ^v_ I RwoZ Av Q wvk bv? GB h Avgv `i GKRb wi cvu vi ej jb, 2 wi cvwu s Ki Z Ki Z Avevi Zuv K weávc bi KvRI Ki Z n Zv wbðqb Zuvi cöv_wgk j wqj bv h, weávcb msmö ni KvR Zuv K Ki Z n e A_ bwzk cö qvrb _ KB G ai bi RvqMvUvq Avmv, ZvB bv? [GLv b Dcw Z] Avgv `i mevib G ikg e w³mz Kg - hvmv hvm jv n Q cöv_wgkfv e A_ bwzk G Kev i Avw` Z nqz kl- UL _vk Z cv i huv K Avgiv ewj Ôev e eyw Õ, gv b mvsmvwik ev ˆelwqK e envi eyw&, muv m ú K Avgv `i Aí eqm ch š Zgb m PZbZv bv-_vkvi Kvi Y nqz Avgiv kl ev Ab Kv bv AvMÖ ni K_v fve Z cvwi, ej Z cvwi wkš AwP ib Avgiv Avwe vi Kwi h, GUv GKUv A_ bwzk NUbv mvsevw`kzv Kiv, Ki Z PvIqv [00:31:00] cöwk Yi auvav Zv, GLb Avgv K Avcbviv wk KD ej eb h, A_ bwzk wi cvwu s qi i Z ev Sb bv? G ikg KD wk ej eb? wbðqb bv? bvwk? [00:31:11] Zvn j AvjvcUv Kx wb q? GKUv n jv h, nü v, A_ bwzk wi cvu Kgb Ki Z nq, muv wb q hw` Kv bv KvwiMwi K_v nq, n Z cv i wkš, muv Zv GB mk bi 3 K_v bv, Ab mk bi K_v wi cvwu s Avcbviv huviv K ib, Zuviv fv jvb Rv bb h, wi cvwu s q KvwiMwi w`k ej Z Zgb wkqy bvb GKUvB KvwiMwi w`k Av Q hvezxq wi cvwu s qi K_v ejwq muv n jv, Aí K_vq wjl Z nq ZvB bv? G Qvov KvwiMwi w`k Avi wk wi cvwu Oi? Avcbv `i Kx g b nq? Ab Kv bv KvwiMwi w`k Avcbviv Rv bb wk h, AgyK we kl KvwiMwi Uªwbs Qvov wi cvwu s Kiv hv e bv? AvR K Avcbv `i K_v ï bi Avgvi m ikg wkqy g b n jv bv wkš wi cvu Qvcv bvi e vcviuv Z h q Avcbv `i cö_g [w` Ki] AwfÁZv jv (A b KiB) _ K `Lv Mj, mlv b wkš we kl Kv bv KvwiMwi Uªwbs qi `ikvi c owb [00:32:11] Zvn j Uªwbs Kx wb q? mvsevw`kzv wefvm Kx wb q? G jv n Q cöv_wgk ii auvav Avgvi Rb Avcbv `i Rb Kx, Zv Avwg Rvwb bv GLb a ib h, G mg K_v Zvjvi GLwZqvi Avgvi Av Q wkbv mvsevw`kzvi wk K wn m e, muv GKUv cökœ e U KviY, mvsevw`kzvi wk K wn m e 4 Zv Avgvi ïi B Kiv DwPZ GB Avjvc w` q h, ÒGLv b A bk wkqy klvi Av Q Avgiv Ôwe klá-wk KÕ Avgiv wkwl q _vwk Ges Avgiv 2 ez gvb Av jvp Ki K_v ïi i Av M cöwk Ykvjvq AskMÖnYKvix vbxq mvsevw`ke ` cvjvμ g wb R `i mvsevw`kzvi AwfÁZv Zz j a ib m K_v GLv b ejv n Q 3 A_ vr, GB Awa ek bi K_v bq 4 A_ vr, A bk ikg KvwiMwi e vcvim vcvi klvi Av Q evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv

10 Qvov evwkiv mvsevw`kzv m ú K Zgb wkqz Rv bb bv Ó Zvici mb Ôaª c`xõ wezk : mvsevw`kiv ewk mvsevw`kzv Rv bb? bvwk mvsevw`k- Zvi we` vai cwê Ziv 5 mvsevw`kzv ewk Rv bb? (Avwg G ch š hv ejjvg, Avcbviv AvcwË _vk j GKUz ej eb wkš Zv Qvov Avwg a i be, Avwg hv ejwq m jv me MÖnY hvm K_v ) [00:33:36] we klázvi gykwkj Zvi gv b ` Lb, Avwg wkš we klázvi aviyvuv KB LvwiR KiwQ ïay Avgv `i ejvqb bv, cy iv wek cwim i Avcwb hlbb GMv iv Rb we kl Ái nv Z evsjv `k kvmb Kivi gzv ` eb, cwipvjbv Kivi gzv ` eb ZLbB gykwkj n e a ib Avgv `i Dc `óvgêjx 6 GMv iv Rb GLb Zuviv hz gnvb e w³b nvb, ev Zuviv hz ` jvkb nvb, GMv iv Rb hlb `k Pvjv bvi Rb Ôwe kláõ wn m e we ewpz n eb, GMv iv KvwU jv Ki KvRUv Kx _v K ZLb? GUv wkš mn R evamg bv wksev Avcwb hlb Ggwc- K `k Pvjv bvi `vwqz ` eb, ZLb evwk ev iv KvwU jv Ki KvRUv Kx? ZvB bv? [00:35:22] Gu `i KvR n jv fuovi cv ji g Zv AbymiY Kiv GLb GZ jv Ki c (Avcwb Avš wikfv ei hw` Pvb) Zv fuovi cvj niqv Avm j Lye KwVb GKUv e vcvi Zey muv K hw` m e K i Zvjv nq, Zvn j ` ki Ae v hv niqvi K_v, Avgv `i ` ki Ae v HiKgB Ges evwk `k jvii c w_ex Z Ae v Kg ewk GiKgB KviY we klázv Av Q mviv `ywbqv Ry o [00:35:45] 5 Avgv `i we` vcöwzôvb jv Z Gu `i K Avgiv ÔA vkv WwgwkqvbÕ e j _vwk A vkv Wwg Z huviv mqvbv n q I Vb Zuv `i K Aek Avcwb A vkv Wwg- mqvbi ej Z cv ib GgbwK PvB j KD A vkv Wwg-wkqvj bv gi WvK Z cv ib Kbbv Avgv `i KvMR-c Îi (gv b, KvM Ri Ges cvzvi) Pbv kvbv SvcR½ j wkqv ji P q mqvbv Avi K? 6 gnv-ri wi Ae v Rvwi Kivi gva g 2007 mv ji 11 Rvbyqvwi Zvwi L evsjv ` ki wmsnvm b Av ivnb-kiv wzb-dwïb-gi mykxj mvgwik Ri wi Rgvbvi ZË veavqk mikv ii Dc `óv `i K_v ejv n Q (G m ú K Avgvi ch v jvpbvi Rb `Lyb: wbdub, 2008K; Ges wbdub, 2009L) mb mgqkvi cwiw wz ÒA ±vei-gnvmsku, nvwmbv- Lv j`v BZ vw`-cöf wz cvi n q bv ej-werqx mỳ Lvi-gnvRb-e emvqx `i ÔAcvi m vebvi evsjv `kõ-g dli wïb-gbbdwïb-bqvrdwïb `i 11 Rvbyqvwii So eb qó w` qwqj (wbdub, 2008P) Avgvi Rxeb hw` Avwg wb R cwipvjbv Ki Z bv cvwi, Ges Avgvi c _ K hw` Kv bv Ôwe kláõ GB k Z `vwqz bb h, Avgvi RxebUv Dwb cwipvjbv K i ` eb, Avgvi KvR ïay Dbvi K_v ky b Pjv, Zvn j Avgvi Rxeb SiSiv n q hv e Kv bv m `n bvb wvk bv? Avcwb mn RB `L Z cv eb, cuvp-qq eq ii GKUv QvU ev Pvi RxebI Kgb K i cwipvjbv Kiv DwPZ, mb `vwqz hw` Avwg wb q wbb Ii gv wn m e, evev wn m e, Zvn jb wkš Ii Rxeb gvuvgywu `dv-idv n q hv e wkïwu nv o nv o Ui cv eb, KZ av b KZ Pvj fv jv jvm e bv Zuvi [00:36:24] ^vaxbzvi ^vfvwek ú nv GUv n Q ^vfvwek gvbexq cöe wë h, Avgiv wb R `i Rxeb wb Riv cwipvjbv Ki Z PvB GUv Avgv `i Rb m~ Î AvKv v wqj AvKv vuv Avgv `i GLbI Av Q, wkš AvKv vuv K Avgiv GiB g a Kxfv e Kxfv e hb nvwi q d jwq, ev GUvi K_v Avi g b bvb a ib, mvsevw`kzv Ki Z Avmvi c i Avcbvi wbðqb Avi Lye ewk Lqvj bvb h, Avm j Avcwb ÔwKQy GKUvÕ Ki Z G mwq jb nqz nqz Avcbvi wb Ri wkqy Kivi wqj wb Ri Abyf~wZ wqj wkqy KZ e nqz eva K iwq jb G Kev i Avw` Z hw` K ii _v Kb, GLb Avi Zv wb q wkqy Kivi bvb GLb hv Av Q Zvi bvg Af vm Avgvi cwîkv G ikg, Avgvi cwîkvi PvIqv G ikg, GUv-GUv Gfv e-gfv e Ki Z nq muv whwb Avgvi em& Av Qb, Zuvi eys Abymv i Zuv K Avwg h-bv gb WvwK bv Kb, em& Zv em&-b em&- K Kv_vI Ôm viõ e j WvK Z nq, cv Vy K m vjyu Ki Z nq Avevi, Kv_vI em& `i K ÔfvBÕ e j WvKvI P j GK mv _ AvÇv gvivi P j wkš, wzwb h em&, PvKwi Kiv Ae vq muv wkš fv jvg ZvB Ui cviqv hvq [00:37:34] Zvi gv b, Avgv `i ^vaxbzvi H ú nv, ev Avcwb h bv gb Wv Kb, m RbkxjZvi H ú nv, wksev wb Ri Rxeb wb RB cwipvjbv Kivi h ^vfvwek AvKv v, G jv Kxfv e Kxfv e hb nvwi q Mj bó n q Mj `~ i m i Mj Gevi Avwg Ôwek we` vj qi wupviõ nb Avcwb Ômvsevw`KÕ nb Av ik Rb ÔWv³viÕ nvb Avgiv Gevi Mi i Mvwo Pvwj q w` qwq GUv Pj Z _vk e g b nq hb cövk wzk wbq g GUv Pj Z _vk e Kv bv e Z q NU e bv Kv bv e wzμg NU e bv [00:38:09] evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv

11 Mi i AvbyM Z i BwZnvm Kxfv e m e n jv GUv? Avcbv `i Kx aviyv? GUv Kxfv e m e n Z cvij? GUv wkš Lye K-wV-b KvR GKUv gvbyl Zuvi wb Ri g Zv K i wzwb Avi Pj eb bv wzwb ïay Zuvi Ôcvwicvwk KZvi AvBbÕ Øviv wbqwš Z n eb Ôcvwicvwk KZvÕ f`ª fvlvq ejjvg Af`ª fvlvq hw` ewj, Zvn j ej Z nq, wzwb KZK jv A_wiwU KZ Z KZ c em& i gnvrb we klá bzv ûryi cyi Z VvKz ii Øviv Abvw`Kvj _ K RvwiK Z AvBbKvby bi Aax b _ K cwipvwjz nb Avgv `i KvR cwipvwjz niqv, Avi Ôwe kláõ `i KvR cwipvjbv Kiv G ikg GKUv cwiw wz Z Avgiv nvwri n q Mjvg Kxfv e? [00:38:51] Avwg welquv Lqvj K iwq Lqvj Kivi Póv K iwq wvk wkbv Rvwb bv muv n jv, Avwg Mi `Ljvg Mi huviv GKUz evkv mvkv ai bi ev Lye ewk AbyMZ UvB ci, Zuv `i K Avgiv ÔMi Õ ewj ZvB bv? ÔMi Õ e j Mvwj w`b eüzi g Zv K i `yózwg K ii ej Z cvwi, Avevi kî i g Zv LuvPv g ii ej Z cvwi Zv, Mi Kx? Mi n Q mb cövyx, h cy ivcywi AvZ mgc Y K i Q nvj Q o w` q Q I ey S M Q Ii Rxe b Avi KZ `~i Kx Kivi Av Q, bv-av Q gv b m Avi GUv wb q Kv bv ikg D PevP Ki e bv GUv Zvi wm vš biqv n q M Q 7 [00:39:40] G ikg GKUv cövyxi ÎI Avwg `L Z cvw Q h, GB cövyxi ev PvUv (gv qi cu _ K h evqyiuv nq) gvuvgywu ek wkqy w`b ch š Zvi wczvgvzvi g Zv H ikg wm vš MÖnY K i bv me wkqy m g b b e, Zvi wkqy Kivi bvb G ikg wm v š m cušqvq bv m wzwoswewos Ki Z _v K Ges Am e GKUv Aw i cövyx wn m e Zv K `L Z cvb Avgiv Zvi `Šov `Šwo `Lvi g Zv nuv U bv ej jb P j w`kwew`k QvUvQywU Ki Z _v K m evsv hvq, m Lye ewk wbqgkvbyb Øviv Af nqwb [00:40:14] 7 civf~z Mi i Avm j evsv n q hvq, `vmz Qvov c_ bvb Avi GB evsv ev ÁvbB Zvi mviv evwk Rxeb a i U b wb q eov bvi Ô evsvõ n q `uvovq gvby li ejvqi GiKg nq Avgv `i K klv bv Ávb hlb Avgv `i Nv o evsv n q P c e m, ZLb Avgiv `vmz Ki Z _vwk Zvi gv b, h cövyxuv ( h cörvwzuv) c~y e q m m ú~y ekxf~z, AbyMZ, nvj Q o `Iqv GKUv cövyx, ZviI mš vbvw` Rb m~ Î ^vaxb Zv K 8 ek gvbv ZI `L eb mgq jv M A bk mgq jv M A bk jvwv cuv Ki Z nq A bk PveyK gvi Z nq `wo w` q euva Z nq A bk wkqy Ki Z nq Zvi c i m eo n Z n Z Ui cvq h, NUbv Zvi Avq Ëi evb i GB Zv! Lye Kg mgq jv M bv mvgvb Mi i ejv ZB Mi i AvbyM Z i BwZnvm K qk nvrvi eq ii 9 Pig AvbyM Z i BwZnvm Zvi cii, GLbI, Mi i cöwzuv ev Pv K bzzb K i ek gvbv bvi cö R± nv Z wb Z nq [00:41:04] cöwk Y I AvbyMZ Gi bvg n Q ÔcÖwk YÕ mvaviyz Uªwbs qi GKUv Mvovi RvqMv n Q GBUv h, Avcbv K cöwk Ki gwr - gvzv ek wkqy wrwbm eys Z n e g b wb Z n e GLb, cöwk Y huviv ` eb, Zuviv [ Zv Avi] ÔLvivcÕ Kv bv Uªwbs ` eb bv! Avgiv h evqyiuv K cöwk Y `Iqvi Póv Kwi, ek gvbvb h, muv Zv g½ ji Rb! Avgv `i g½ ji Rb ZvB bv? gvby li g½ ji Rb wbðqb G Z Mi -mgv RiI g½j wbwnz GUvB Avgv `i aviyv GUv hw` Avgiv a i bv-wbzvg hw` fvezvg G Z I `i g½j bvb, ev Avgv `i g½j bvb, Zvn j GB cöwk Y Ae vnz _vkz bv [00:41:42] Zv, cöwk Y jv M GB h Av Av Avgiv Af n q Mjvg A bk wkqy Z, Gi Rb cöwk Y jv M KZ ^cœ-kíbv-avkv BZ vw` K Aev e e j Q o w`jvg, wkš A_ bwzk Pvc muvb _ K Mj evwk cöavb wrwbm n q DVj muvb GUvB Avgv `i K wb Ri wb Ri ckvq avw q avw q wb q hv Q Ges Avgiv evc evc K i nuvuwq, `Šovw Q, emwq me wkqyb Kg ewk Ki Z eva nw Q huviv cviwq bv, huviv KiwQ bv, Zuviv ÔwcwQ qõ cowq Zuviv Avgiv fymwq Ges Zuviv ÔA hvm Õ e j we ewpz nw Q wvk bv? [00:42:16] Av Qv GLb a ib, cöwk Yi Kv bv fv jv w`k Av Q wkbv muv wb q ZK DV ZB cv i me cöwk YB wk Avi G ikg Lvivc! cöwk Y Qvov Avgv `i Kgb K i Pj e? cöwk Y Qvov Kgb K i Pj e m AvjvcUv 8 A_ vr, wkï-mš vb K 9 gvb μvmdu GbKvU v GbmvB K v cwwqvi Z_ gvzv ek, e bi Mi K e `x K i ÔM ncvjbõ Kiv ïi nq Aš Z mv o AvU nvrvi eqi Av M (GbKvU v, 2004) evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv

12 AZ eo K i Zvjvi my hvm g b nq GLv b bvb Zey, Avwg wbwðz bv, hw` Avcbviv bnv qzb Zv jb m ikg cökœ, ZLb bv-nq `yb-gkuv K_v Avgiv ej ZB cvie, wewbgq Ki Z cvie Aek Ôwe klá-gzvgzõ w` Z cvie bv Avwg h nzz Ôwe kláõ bv [00:42:44] we klá-ci úiv Avwg h nzz Ôwe kláõ bb, Ôwe kláõiv Kx ikg Ôwe kláõ muv Avwg fv jv K i eywsi bv KviY, Ôwe kláõ bv-n j Avcwb Ôwe kláõ wpb ebi bv wvk bv? Avcwb wb R hw` Ôwe kláõ bv-nb, Zvn j Av ik Rb h Ôwe kláõ muv Kgb K i eys eb? a ib, m μwum LyDe eo Ávbx jvk Avwg muv Kxfv e eysjvg? Avwg Zv m μwu mi gv bi Ávbx jvk bv! (GUv Zv ejvb Av Q!) Avi, Avwg hw` Zuvi gv ci Ávbx jvk nb, Zvn j Zv AvwgI m μwum! ZLb m μwum h GKUv ÔAvjv`vÕ wrwbm, muv Zv _v K bv Avi! A_P Avgv K hw` eys Z nq h, m μwum mwz we kl ik gi Ávbx GB c w_ex Z, Zvn j Zv Avgv K e w³mzfv e Zuvi Áv bi mv _ evsvcov mvi Z n e Zvi gv b Avgv KI m μwum-ai bi gvbyl n Z n e Zey, Avgiv mevb Rvwb mviv `ywbqvi jvk h, m μwum c Uv Guiv n Qb Ávbx e vwi vi gbbyj nv mb, Rbv ij gwzb Guiv n Qb Ávbx 10 [00:43:34] Kgb K i eysjvg? Zvi gv b, Kv bv-bv- Kv bv-fv e Avgiv a i wb qwq NUbv G ikgb h, c w_ex Z wkqy jvk Av Qb, Avjv`v Rv Zi, Zuviv ÔÁvbxÕ, Zuviv Ôwe kláõ Kviv Zuviv? Zuv `i K_v Avgiv ï b AvmwQ QvU ejv _ K, bvbvbfv e d Uv ` L AvmwQ Zuv `i Mvb ï b AvmwQ Zuv `i jlv c o AvmwQ Zuv `i bvg ï b AvmwQ GuivB mviv `ywbqv Z Kg ewk ÔÁvbxÕ Gu `i K_v Lye ewk K i ejv nq wewewm-wmgbgb BZ vw` Z Lye ewk K i kvbv hvq Gu `i bvg [00:44:03] Avi, wewewm-b h nzz Ômvsevw`KZvÕ, Ômvsevw`KZvÕ gv bb h nzz wmgbgb, myzivs, GLb Avgvi KvR n Q cö_ gb fq c q hviqv, Nve o hviqv: ÒAvwg Zv fvb wewewm Zgb `wl wb! wewewm Zv Avwg wpwb bv! Hme ` k Rb MÖnY Kwi bvb! d j, Ômvsevw`KZvÕ Zv Avwg Rvwb bv!ó 11 [00:44:20] 10 GK-GMv iv Avg ji me P q AvMÖvmx, iƒp, emvgvj Ges GgbwK kvmk-e emvqx kªyxi GwjU-eyw RxexMY KZ K mepvb Z ewk mgv jvwpz `yb ZË veavqk-dc `óv, GK mgq huv `i K Dc `óv-cwil` _ K QuvUvB K i `Iqv nq 11 Gfv e, kvmk-gnvrb `i we klá-cöyvjx Z Avgv `i ÔRvbvÕ Avi Ôbv-RvbvÕ wba vwiz G ikg K i Av iv G bv hvq PvB j Kviv Rv bb Ômvsevw`KZvÕ Zvn j? mvsevw`kzv wefvm Rv bb Avgv `i mvsevw`kzv wefv Mi huviv wk K, Zuviv [Avevi] Rv bb h, Av iv fv jv Ômvsevw`KZvÕ Kviv Rv bb Av iv fv jv Ômvsevw`KZvÕ Rv bb gvwk b gyjy Ki mvsevw`kzv wefv Mi wk Ke `, A_ev e wukiv, ev BD ivcxqiv hz Y Iuiv GLv b bv-av mb, ZZ Y AvgivB me P fv jv Rvwb Ibviv P j Avm j Avgiv Avevi Pzc m hvb, [wgbwgb Kwi]: ÒAvgiv Zv Rvwb bv Zgb!Ó GB Zv ci úiv GB n Q, mvaviy A _ cöwk Y! [00:44:48] `yb ik gi klv, zj Ges `yózwg [e w³-gvby li wb Ri ^vfvwek Zvobv _ K klv, Avi AwffveK we` vjq KZ Z KZ c KZ K Rvi K i klv bv, A_ev cwiw wz I RxweKvi Kvi Y wkl Z eva niqvi g a gšwjk cv_ K Av Q ] GLb a ib, Avwg wb R _ K Kv bv wrwbm Rvb Z PvB c w_ex Z gvby li ^vfvwek ˆewkó n Q, Avgv `i KŠZ~nj Av Q Kx n Q Av kcv k? c w_exuv Kx ikg? Avwg K? Avwg Kx ikg? Av kcv ki NUbv jv Kx, Kb, Kx ikg, Kxfv e P j? GiKg Kb? Ab ikg bv Kb? G jv Zv ^vfvwek KŠZ~nj gvby li GLb a ib h Kv bv Kvi YB nvk, G ikg Kv bv KŠZ~nj _ KB nvk, A_ev we kl Kv bv AvMÖn _ KB nvk, Avgiv wvk Kwi h, AgyK wrwbmuv wkl Z PvB K_vi K_v Avwg Mvb wkl Z PvB, Avwg Qwe AuvKv wkl Z PvB, Avwg mvb Kj Pvjv bv wkl Z PvB, ev muvzvi wkl Z PvB ev, Avwg hgb nuvuv wkl Z P qwq. ZvB bv? KD Avgv K wkš Rvi K i Uªwbs `qwb h, Zvgv K nuvuv wkl ZB n e Avwg wb R GK`g, gv b, Pig D` gi m ½ nuvuv wk LwQ wkl ZB n e bv-wkl j n eb bv c o hvw Q e _v cvw Q Kw UwbDqvmwj cöwzw`b KZ evi fv jv e _vi cvw Q Zey Avevi D V `uvwo q nuvuvi Póv KiwQ GBUv n Q Ab Uªwbs GBUv Avgvi Rb Avgvi Uªwbs Avwg Rvb Z PvB Avwg wkl Z PvB Avgvi `ikvi h Kv bv Kvi YB nvk Avwg Ui c qwq h, Avgv K GUv Rvb Z n e, Avgv K GUv eys Z n e, Avgv K GUv wkl Z n e [00:46:13] GB ikg, wb Ri ZvwM` _ K, m ZvwM `i KviY hv-b NUzK, Avgiv Kv bv wrwbm wkl Z Mjvg Kv_vI [ muv GK ai bi klv] wkš, GB n Z _v K Rxe bi Nv U Nv U evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv

13 R b B wk Avgiv z j MwQjvg? bv Ab Kv bv wk vcöwzôv b Avgiv GB Rb fwz n qwqjvg? bv AvR K wk Avgiv GLv b [I ikg Kv bv Zvobv _ K G mwq?] Avm jb wk Avgv `i gv_vi g a Kv bv, gv b, mvsnvwzk Kv bv cökœ `Lv w` q Q h, BK bvwgk Ges UªW wi cvwu suv Kx muv bv-eys j n QB bv; myzivs, GKUv wkqy e e v Ki ZB n e? Kv_vq Kx Kiv hvq, Kv_vq Kx Kiv hvq ZLb ïbjvg, GLv b n Q wkqy GKUv, Avi ZLbB `Šovq P j Avmjvg, Òbvn&, GKUv my hvm cviqv M Q, GUv wgm KivB hv e bvó GiKg wk bv [G ikg wk Ae vuv? G ikg Zv bv!] [00:46:53] Zvi gv b, we` gvb Uªwbs jv K mvaviyfv e cö kœi mvg b nvwri Kiv hvq ZvB bv? Zvi ci DËi Kx cviqv hv Q, bv-hv Q, muv c i GKUv GKUv K i [ Km a i a i] `L Z n e MY Ges XvjvI [Ges gyl ] Kv bv DËi bvb [00:47:11] Zvn j GKUv wrwbm evsv Mj: [mgvr-] RM Z Kv bv cö kœib Kv bv XvjvI DËi bvb Ôm~h Kvb w` K I V?Õ, Ôc~e w` K I V Õ G ikguv Qvov ZvB bv? I jv Avgv `i Avq Ëi evb ii NUbv gvbwek [ev mvgvwrk] Kv bv welq wb q Kv bv cö kœib Kv bv GK K_vq DËi bvb Ggb Kv bv DËi bvb, h DËi mevi Rb cö hvr [00:47:36] Zvn j, A_ bwzk I e emv welqk wi cwu Oi i Z Kx? Gi cö qvrb Kx? GUv hw` cökœ nq, Z e Gi DËi Kx? GKUv wrwbm Avgiv eysjvg h, Gi GK K_vq Kv bv DËi bvb wksev Ggb Kv bv DËi bvb, h DË ii m ½ Avgiv mevb GKgZ ne hw`-bv GKgZ niqvi Rb Avgiv B Zvg a cöwkw Z n q _vwk h, Òbv, Avgiv B Zvg a B cöwkw Z, mn RB GKgZ n Z cvwió [PU K i GKgZ n Z cvivuv wkš wkl Z nq ] GUvi Rb hw` Avgiv B Zvg a B [ mikg] cöwkw Z n q _vwk, Zvn j Avgiv Avevi mn RB GKgZ n Z cvie Avi, AZLvwb cöwk Y hw` Avgiv G Rxe b bv- c q _vwk, Avgiv hw` f e DV Z cvwi h, bv, Avgiv Avm j AZLvwb cöwkw Z bv, Avgiv Awfbq KiwQ, Kbbv GBUv bv- K i Dcvq bvb [Zvn jb cy iv cwiw wz Avjv`v `uvov e] [00:48:28] Avgvi Zv-B g b nq Mi i ev Pv K cöwk Y w` ZB AZ w`b jv M H K qk nvrvi eqi a i Zvi wcz cyi l-gvz cyi l-gvz bvixiv mevb P~ovš `vmz Kivi c ii, Zvn j gvby li ev Pv K GZ mn R UªBb&W& Avc K i Zvjv mnr bv myzivs, Avgiv m ez Awfbq KiwQ, ivj c KiwQ h, GiKgUv GiKgUv bv-ki j, GiKgUv GiKgUv bv-ej j, Avwg hlv b AvwQ mb RvqMvUvi mv _ gvbvbmb nq bv [00:48:59] (GB ch v q GKRb mvsevw`k D V `uvovb Av jvpk Ôej eb wkqy?õ wr Ám Ki j wzwb wk Y-cÖwk Yi ÔAvbyôvwbKÕ, ÔAbvbyôvwbKÕ Ges ÔDc- AvbyôvwbKÕ BZ vw` cökvi f `i weeiy `b Ges gvby li wb R-wb R klvi e vcviwu K AbvbyôvwbK wk v ev AbvbyôvwbK Uªwbs wn m e AwfwnZ Kiv hvq wkbv m-m ú K Rvb Z Pvb DË i Av jvpk e jb,) [00:49:36] nü v, Avwg ejjvg Zv muv K Zv Uªwbs ejjvgi Ges ejjvg mb Uªwbs qi cq b Avgvi wb Ri ZvwM` KvR Ki Q Avgvi wb Ri Zvobv KvR Ki Q e vck, A`g Zvobv gvbwek Zvobv cö qvrb Ges m ú~y ey Smy S h Avwg H ZvobvUv AR b K iwq, Zv-I bv GUvi g a Avgvi cörvwzmz ú nv KvR Ki Q cörvwzmz Kx-Rvwb-GKUv Avwg fzi _ K Ui cvw Q h, Avgv K GUv Ki Z n e Zv, Avwg ejjvg h, ïay cörvwzmzfv e Ui Avwg Avwg cvb ev bv-cvb, h Kv bvfv eb Ui cvb bv Kb, hw` Avwg g b Kwi h, Avgvi Kv bv wrwbm klvi Rb Zvobv Av Q, Zvn j mbuv GK ai bi wk v [GB ai bi wk vq Avgvi AvKv vb Avmj NUbv Ab KD hw` klvi Kv R Avgv K mvnvh K ib, Zv muv Avgvi Kv R Av `Š jvm e, hw` Avgvi ZvobvUv _v K hw` Avgvi MiR bv-_v K, Zvn j gnv I v `i cvj vq c oi klv hvq bv wek we` vjq jvi w` K ZvKv jb GUv eys eb gvbyl Ab K hvwš K AbyKiY K i k L bv klvuv gvby li Aš R vz e vcvi I v` K ` L, Zuvi mv _ KvR Ki Z Ki Z h mvm i` wb RB I v` n q I Vb, wzwb Kx K ib? wzwb wkš I v `i bkj K ib bv i K wzwb AvZ K ib GgbwK I v `i KvR I Kg c wz K wzwb wb Ri g Zv K i Kg ewk K ib, e`jvb, DbœZ K ib Av iv A_P H I v `ib Ab mvm i`iv wbpz ii wgw B _ K hvb KviY, Zuviv wklwq jb eva n q cöv Yi Avb ` bv ] [00:50:13] Avwg Avcbvi wzb ik gi [AvbyôvwbK, Dc-AvbyôvwbK Ges AbvbyôvwbK wk vi] g a Mjvg bv, nü v? H wzb ikg K i `L j c i Kv bv we kl myweav nq wkbv, Avwg wbwðz bb a ib h GBUv, gv b H h fvm Ki jb wzb ikg fv e, Avgvi GB gyn~ Z g b n Q h, GB wefw³ [ˆZwi] Kivi c wzuvb, G Î, GKUv AvbyôvwbK c wz, wvk bv? GUv GKUv AvbyôvwbK c wz m ez Kv bv AvbyôvwbK wk vcöwzôvb _ KB G ai bi c wzi D e GUv Avgvi m `n, GB gyn~ Z Avwg Rvwb bv, NUbvUv Avcbvi Î Kx Avcwb wk wb R wb R fve jb? bvwk Kv bv evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv

14 bv- Kv bvfv e Avcwb Kv bv RvqMv _ K G ikg ï b Qb ev ` L Qb? [00:50:49] 12 Av Qv Avwg AvcvZZ fvm Kijvg Ab RvqMv _ K GKUv n jv h, wb Ri Zvobvq wk v Avwg wkl Z PvB h Kv bv Kvi YB nvk Avš wikfv e GUv Avgvi AvMÖn Av ikuv n jv h, Avgvi AvMÖn bv, nü v? GUv Kgb Kgb K i hb Avgv K ivwr Kiv bv n q Q, ev Avwg ivwr n qwq h, GUv Ki Z n e hgb, z j hviqvi mgq cö_g cö_g GKUz evc-gvõiv nvjkv cvgcwæ gv ib, AbycÖvwYZ Kivi Póv K ib GKUzLvwb h, z j hviqv Lye fv jv, ILv b M j Ljvayjv n e, A bk eüzevüe cviqv hv e bvbvbikgfv e evev-gvõiv GKUz BÝcvqvi Kivi Póv K ib h, ILv b h Z n e wkš, ILv b Avgiv h Z-bv- h ZB, H eq mb, Avgiv m μwu mi PvB ZI ewk Ávb AR b K i dwj Ges GB cig mz wk L dwj h, zj Lye myweavi RvqMv bv, GBUv fv jv jv M bv [00:51:51] zj fv jv jv M, Avm jb zj fv jv jv M, G ikg ev Pv Avwg Lye GKUv wpwb bv Avcbviv P bb wkbv Avwg Rvwb bv A_ev Avcbv `i Kv iv QvU ejvq ( zj h-kvi Y ˆZwi Kiv n q Q wvk mb Kvi Y) zj fv jv j M Q, Avgvi g b nq bv GLb, Avgv `i Ab KviY N U hvq GLv bb n Q gvby li grvuv gvbyl HLv b h q Zvi wb Ri g Zv K i NUbv NwU q d j Zvi huv fv jv jv M, m me Av qvrb m IiB g a Kivi Póv K i ZLb nqz z j hviqvi c _ KvPvwi-gv Vi g a mvc Ljv `Lv Q mbuv fv jv jv M z j bv- M j Zv Avi H ch š hviqv hv e bv Av iv KZ ikg! ARmª c wz Z Avgv `i Kv Q zj ZLb fv jv jv M z j M j K vm duvwk `Iqv hvq K v mi g a I `yózwg Kiv hvq GB h `yózwg wj, h wj K Avgiv `yózwg ewj, m jv Kx? h jv ÔLvivc KvRÕ, ixwzi evb i, m jv n Q `yózwg gv b, hv Avcbvi Rb ÔKiYxqÕ wqj bv, wkš Avcwb Ki Qb gv b, hv Avcbvi Ki Z Avm j B Qv Ki Q nü v? wkš KZ c muv cq ` K ib bv, Zvi bvg n Q ÔLvivc KvRÕ, `yózwg [GBfv eb, GiKg Avevj cöwk Yi Kvi YB ÔAv`eKvq`vÕ Ges Ô eav`weõi aviyv cvb Avgiv, Ôfv jvõ I Ôg `Õ welqk aviyv cvb e w³rxeb _ K ïi K i ivóªxq Rxeb ch š hvezxq KZ c Gfv e 12 G cö kœi DË i AskMÖnYKvix mvsevw`k g nv`q K qkuv K_v e jb hv ik W A úó wqj, D vi Kiv hvqwb Zvici ez gvb Av jvpk (mib) Zuvi Av jvpbv Avevi ïi K ib, GLv b wvk c ii GB ÒAv Qv...Ó Aby Q`wU _ K Zvi Abywjwc ÔGUv Kiv hv e bvõ, ÔGUv Kiv fv jv bvõ, ÔIUv Kiv hv e bvõ, ÔIUv Ki j kvw c Z n eõ e j G Ki ci GK AvBb Ki Z _v K Avevj Dchy³ cöwk Yi d j huviv mme AvBb g b P jb Zuviv nb iv óªi ÔmybvMwiKÕ, Avi huviv wb Ri eyw -we ek-abyf~wz Abyqvqx P jb, Zuviv nb ÔAcivaxÕ Gfv eb ivóª Zvi bvmwik `i K wμwgbvjvbr K i, ÔAcivaxÕ AvL vwqz K i hgb ai b, eo jvk `i `vwg g` LvIqvUv cq ` Ki ji MwiedwKi-`i ek `i MuvRv LvIqv ev wmw mev Kiv K ivóª (gv b Avgv `i kvmk-e w³em ) cq ` K i bv myzivs, KD MuvRv L jb muv R j wm q cpvi g Zv Aciva n q hvq AvaywbK c w_exi mg KvivMv i me P q ewk cwigv Y h Acivax-K qw`iv Av Qb, Zviv GB Z_vKw_Z Ôgv`K mebkvixõ Mwie gvbyl Gu `i `ikvi wpwkrmv, ivóª Gu `i K `q ew `Z hgb ai b, msev`c Îi wi cvu Abymv i GLb ivóª fve Q, wf ve wë eü Ki Z n e Dcvq Kx? ivóª GKwU wf vwe ivax AvBb cöyqb Ki e Zvici huviv wf v Ki eb Zuviv mevb AvBb fvovi `v q ÔAcivaxÕ n q DV eb RjLvbv jv f i DV e Mwie gvby l 13 ] GB Zv! Ôfv jvõ Ges ÔLvivcÕ-Gi cöv_wgkzg ˆewkó! [00:52:58] Avwg M o huv `L Z cvb, G jv M o ejwq, cö Z KUv NUbv a i a i Avgv `i K Avevi, hw` Avgiv `L Z cvwi, ZLb Avevi [mywbw` ó] Kv bv Kv bv NUbvi ejvq Ab ikg DËiI c Z cvwi Avgiv, wvk bv? [AvcvZZ] gvuv `v M Avgiv e vcviuv hw` `L Z PvB, Zvn j hv `Lv hvq, mbuv ejwq [GLv b] Zv, Zvn j A_ bxwz Ges e emvevwyr welqk wi cvwu s qi i Z Kv_vq, cö qvrbxqzv Kv_vq, GB cö kœii Zvn j wkš Avjv`v Avjv`v DËiB cve Avgiv [00:54:10] Kx N U Q h, e emvevwy R i wi cvu GZ i Z mnkv i Qvcv n Q? GLb a ib h, GKUv wrwbm Avgiv `Ljvg h, Avgiv A_ bxwzi i Z eyws e emvevwy R i i Z I eyws wkš Avgiv Zv ivrbxwzi i Z I eyws Avgiv Ljvayjvi i Z I eyws Avgv `i Rxe b jlvcovi i Z I eyws G jvi meb Zv mvsevw`k wn m e Avgv `i AvIZvi 13 gv` Ki `v q AcivaxKiY cöm ½ `Lyb: câg Aa vq, Kwjb IqvW, 2004; gv`kwe ivax Rnv `i ivrbxwz m ú K `Lyb: Av g š v bv, 2001; KvivMvi h Mwie gvbyl `i K mvgvwrkfv e wbqš Y Kivi cöwzôvb m m ú K `Lyb: μ cvrwkb, 1887; hvezxq mgm vi mgvav b K_vq K_vq AvBb cöyqb Kiv, Z_v AvBb Ges KZ Z i m úk wel q `Lyb: μ cvrwkb, 1882 evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv

15 g a c o, ZvB bv? Avgv `i Kvfv i Ri g a c o gvbyl msμvš me wkqyb Zvn j Avjv`v K i A_ bxwz Ges e emv welqk wi cvwu s qi i Z wb q K_v ej Z n Q Kb GLb? GZw`b ej Z nqwb Kb? [00:54:47] [AskMÖnYKvix GKRb mvsevw` Ki w` K ZvwK q] Avcwb g b nq ej jb h, Avcwb GK`g ïi Z K wl welqk wi cvwu s Ki Zb? GBUv Kxfv e n jv e jb Zv? Avgvi Kv Q GBUv e wzμgx g b n jv 14 Zvi gv b GB Kv R Avcbvi ^vfvwek GKUv AvMÖnI wqj gv b, K wlkvr fv jv jvmz 15 Zvi gv b Avcwb A_ bwzk Ges e emvevwyr welqk wi cvwu s qi g a wq jbb, ïi B K i Qb GUv w` q, ev e ZvB bv? gv b, A_ bwzk wi cvwu s w` qb Avcbvi wi cvwu s ïi ZLb wk Avcwb Kv_vI ï b Qb A_ bwzk wi cvwu s wb q Avcbv K wkl Z n e Avjv`v K i? 16 KZ eqi n jv Avcbvi wi cvwu s ïi Kiv? 17 eû eû w`b, ZvB bv? 18 A_P, GZw`b c i G m Avgv `i K A_ bwzk Ges e emv welqk wi cvwu s qi i Z Avjv`v K i wkl Z n e GiKg GKUv wm vš Kv_vI n q Q [GKRb mvsevw`k G ch v q, Ò mb mg qi Ae v Avi GLbKvi Ae v GK bqó RvZxq GKwU K_v e jb ] GUv Avcbvi h Kv bv cö kœi ejv ZB wvk mb mg qi ivrbxwz, GLbKvi ivrbxwz Avjv`v mb mg qi Ljvayjv, GLbKvi Ljvayjv Avjv`v mb mg qi cwîkv, GLbKvi cwîkv Avjv`v GKRb mvsevw`k : ZLb A_ bwzk wi cvu wj cö_g cvzvq eo K i w`z GLb cvzvb K i w` q Q GKUv GBUv A_ bxwzi cvzv mib : Av M A_ bwzk wi cvu wj cö_g cvzvq eo K i w`z, GiKg NUbv wk ewk GKUv NUZ? ek K-Rb mvsevw`k : (GK mv _ bwzevpk DËi) bv, bv mib : nvvr NUZ GKRb mvsevw`k : ïay ev RU mib : ev RU, ZvB bv? ïay ev RU, ev KL bv KL bv úkvj Kv bv gv b GKUv AvB Ug nqz wjw AvB Ug n jv LyeB Kv jf `ª gv b H wrwbm n ZvB bv cövq myzivs, nvvr K i wkqy hw` n Zv ZLb nqz eo K i cö_g 14 mvsevw`k g nv` qi GLv b ejv K_v jv ik W A úó 15 mvsevw`k g nv` qi GLv b ejv K_v jvi ik W A úó 16 DË i mvsevw`k g nv`q e jb, ÒKL bvb bvó 17 mvsevw`k g nv` qi GLv b ejv K_v jvi ik W A úó 18 mvsevw`k g nv` qi GLv b ejv K_v jvi ik W A úó cvzvq AvmZ Avwg Avcbvi cv_ K Uv K Dwo q w`w Q bv Avwg ïay ejwq h, Avcwb hw` ïay GBfv e ` Lb h, Av M Avi GLb Avjv`v, ïay hw` Avjv`v wn m e ` Lb, ZvB j c i wrwbmuv ai Z cviv Avgv `i Rb KwVb n e eiâ Avjv`vUv Kv_vq, mbuv K hw` Avgiv aivi Póv Ki Z cvwi, Zvn j nqz Avgiv Avgv `i RvqMvUvq Avm Z cvie h, Kb Avgiv GLb GB welquv wb q Avjvc KiwQ hgb Avcwb ej jb h GLb GKUv cvzv Avjv`vB Av Q Kv bv Kv bv cwîkvi GKvwaK cvzvi Av Q, ZvB bv? Ges muv cöwzw`bb Qvcv nq Kb, e jb, Kb, Kx Kvi Y? Kx n q Q? H mg qi m ½ GB mg qi Kx Avjv`v n q Q? Kx NUbv N U Q huvi Kvi Y GB A_ bwzk Ges evwyr welqk wi cvu cwîkv Z GZ i Z mnkv i Qvcv n Q? [00:58:52] G ch v q ek K-Rb mvsevw`k AvMÖnf i G K G K `yb-gkuv K i K_v e jb, hv ik W A úó Av jvpk ZLb Zuv `i me K_v h ikw Kiv n Q m K_v Zuv `i K Rvbvb mib : Avgvi gwk b aiv co e Avcbv `i ejv K_v jv? Avwg eys Z cviwq bv Avwg GKUv gwkb Ab K i i LwQ, ikw KiwQ Avcbv `i K_v jv aiv co e GLv b? d vbuv Ad Kiv _vk? AvR K Zv g b nq Mig bvb? HUvI Av ikuv Af vm d vb Pj Z n e G ch v q A b KB d vb Ad K i `Iqvi Rb Av qvrk `i K Aby iva K ib d vb Ad K i `Iqv nq GKRb mvsevw`k ZLb Zuvi K_v ïi K ib GKRb mvsevw`k : Avwg huv ejwqjvg, KD-bv- KD Pvwc q w` Q e vcviuv GiKg AvgviI g b n q Q Avgiv GB [A_ bwzk I e emvevwyr RvZxq] wi cvwu s q SzuKjvg Kb? [00:59:46] Gici g~j Av jvpk Avevi Zuvi K_v ïi K ib: Òmgv R Kv_vI GKUv wm vš biqv n q Q h, A_ bxwz...ó, wkš wzwb K_v Pvwj q h Z e _ nb, Kbbv D³ mvsevw`k g nv`q ZL bv Zuvi K_v kl K ibwb, wzwb e jb hvw Q jb `y-r bi K_v msn l wjß n j Av jvpk _ g hvb mvsevw`k g nv` qi K_v kvbvi Rb [00:59:55] G ch v q Rbve gwndwïb G Kev i Kv Q G m, Lye wbpz ^ i, Av qvrke `i c _ K wbdub K g b Kwi q `b, nv Z Avi mgq Av Q 30 wgwbu Zuvi K_v ik W A úó I fvov-fvov kvbv M Q, Zv Z evsv hvq wzwb ej Z Pvw Q jb h, B Zvg a GB mvsevw`ke ` Zuv `i AwfÁZv kqvi K i Qb Ges c i Ab GKUv Awa ek b Zuviv Avevi ej ebi, myzivs Av jvpbv hb GLb mywbw` ó RvqMvq wbe nq Ges `ª Z cwimgvwßi w` K hvq ZLb wbdub hv e jb Zvi gv b `uvovq GB h, mvsew`k `i Gme K_vevZ v ez gvb Av jvpbvib Ask Ges cy iv Av jvpbv kl n Z Lye `wi n e bv ZLb Dc iv³ mvsevw`k Zuvi Amgvß K_v ïi K ib Avevi [01: 00:06] evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv

16 D³ mvsevw`k : GLv b Kv bv GKwU gn ji ev we kl GKwU gn ji B Uv i Av Q, h-b Uv i wu, gv b, B Uv i i Kvi YB eva nq H w` K Avgv `i K SuyK Z n Q ev H w` K Avgv `i K h Z n Q, ev Avgiv eva nw Q GiKg Avgvi g b n q Q Zv bv-n j weávcb jv `wl, mlv b GKUv Ae v eys Z cvwi, wksev Avgiv KL bv hvmv hvm Ki j XvKv _ K Avgv `i K A bk mgq e j `Iqv n q Q h, GB cöwzôv bi GB QvÆ wbdrwu, h wbdrwu IiKg `vwg wbdr bv, wr `wm Z Avgiv Qvc Z cvwi bvb, A_P H wbdrwu hw` d«u c R w` Z ejv nq, Avwg Kxfv e `e?ó [01:00:38] mib : GKUv D`vniY `b bv Lye mnr n e; ev bv-w` ji Pj e [01:00:42] Av ikrb mvsevw`k : nvvr K ib Avgv `i weávcb-wefvm _ K dvb `Iqv n jv, `Iqvi ci ejv n jv, [A úó] ÔKvj K [A úó] gnbv MÖ ci GKUv Bqv Av Q, Avcbvi ILv b hv e Ges Qwe Ges wbdruv eo K i ` ebõ [01:00:54] mib : wk mi Ici wbdr? mvsevw`k : gnbv MÖ ci mib : I Av Qv mvsevw`k : Zv, NUbvUv n Q h, ÔQwe Ges wbdruv GKUz eo K i ` ebõ; wbdruv Avwg Kxfv e eo Kie, hv N U Q Zvi evb i?! (mevi Pvcv nvwm, bvbv gš e, K_v) [01:01:10] Ab Av ikrb mvsevw`k : GKUv welq Bqv Ki Z Q, gv b, [A úó] gvevbj Kv úvwb, wewfbœ Kv úvwbi [A úó] weávc bi ^v_ ` L Z Q cwîkvq GBUv `L Z h q GK ai bi A_ bwzk wi cvu KvR Ki Z Q [01:01:23] mib : ûu ûu D³ mvsevw`k : GQvov Avwg g b Kwi h, GK ai bi cvvki Avgv `i m wó n q Q hviv GB A_ bwzk wi cvu jv Pvq (G ch v q g~j Av jvpk Avevi Zuvi Av jvpbvq wd i hvb ) [01:01:31]... `vkvb`vwii wi cvwu s GKUv K_v wkš D VB hv Q Zvn j, A_ bwzk wi cvu GKUv `uvov Q h, wewfbœ cöwzôv bi Rb h jv cö qvrb e emv-cöwzôvb h jv Av Q, bz vbxq mikg wi cvu Avevi, Avcbvi cvovi Avgvi evrv ii gyw`- `vkvb`vi ev Ab vb `vkvb`vi `i ev e emvqx- `i wbdr h Ki Z n e Zv wkš Zuviv fve Qb bv hviv wjwws dvg, ZvB bv, bz vbxq hviv cöwzôvb, A_ bwzk cöwzôvb ev e emvevwyr welqk cöwzôvb, Zv `i welqk Z_ jv covi g Zv wkqy jvk `uvov Q GBUv GK ai bi n Q h A_ bwzk wi cvu [01:02:07] Av ikuv Zv n jv h, H h Dwb ejwq jb K wl w` q Zv Dwb ïi B K i Qb... [01:02:12] G mgq GKRb mvsevw`k K D V `uvov Z ` L g~j Av jvpk Zuv K e jb, Ònü v, cö`xc `v e jb Ó ZLb wzwb K_v Zv jb weávcb wb q, weávcbk Z c Y i Drcv`K nvdrwui Lei cökv ki Î AbvKvw Z we kl myweav cöm ½, hv wb q GKUz Av MB K_v nw Qj Ab w` K, Av ikrb mvsevw`k wgwwqvi AvMvg msev` fvr Z ji `vg, Z_v mvaviyfv e `ªe g~j, evov bvi Î Kxfv e ÔLe ii Avov j weávcbõ ev ÔcÖ gvkbõ wn m e KvR K i, A_ vr ÔAgyK `ª e i `vg evo QÕ RvZxq AvMvg msev` cy wui `vg evov Z cvbkvwi we μzv `i K Kxfv e mvnvh K i, Zv wb q Av iv GKRb mvsevw`k Zuvi wb Ri g Zv K i e vl v K ib wbz w` bi c Y i `vg evov bvi Î Kxfv e wgwwqv e emvqx `i K ÒD `IqvÓi KvR K i _v K G ch v q mib Avevi wkqy Yi Rb K_v ej Z m g nb [01:03:43] mib : GiKgUv NU eb Kbbv Avcwb hv Pvb ïaygvî mbuzkz Zv Avcwb wi gvu K Uªvj Ki Z cvi eb bv h Kv bv wi cvu B Avcwb hlb Ki eb Zvi wewfbœ ikg cöwzwμqv n e hviv hviv hfv e f~³ fvmx, BwZevPK ev bwzevpkfv e, mikg mikgfv e cöwzwμqv n e hviv `vg evovi Kvi Y Sv gjvq co e Zv `i Abyf~wZ n e h, Zvi w ß n e, wei³ n e, Zviv wgwwqv K _ v¼m Rvbv e, wgwwqv Av MB e jwqj, `vg evo Q, wkš KZ c e e v MÖnY K iwb [01:04:11] Avgv `i ` k Zv ÔKZ c Õ Av Qb AvR K ïay bv, GK ai bi wpikvj _ KB Av Qb wkqy n j c ib ÔKZ c wkqy GKUv Ki KÕ Avcbvi- Avgvi, Avgiv h c, Rbc, Avgv `i wkqy KiYxq bvb Avgv `i KiYxq ej Z A c v Kiv h, KZ c wkqy GKUv Ki e wkqy n j c ib ÔGKUv AvBb nvkõ iv vnvu fvov, iv vnvu fv jv Kivi Rb GKUv AvBb nvk AgyK RvqMvq ev mi nb evrvq Lye ewk, Mvwoi nb eü Kivi Rb GKUv AvBb nvk hv wkqyb Avgiv PvB ev PvB bv mbme wkqy eü Kivi Rb ev Pvjy Kivi Rb GKUv AvBb nvk Avwg gvslv b ejwqjvg, Gfv e KZ c Ges AvBb, AvBb Ges KZ c GivB n Q Avgv `i c _ K hvezxq wkqy K ib [01:04:52] Zv, H GKUv Awf hvm Avm e f~³ fvmx `i w`k _ K h, KZ c Rvb ZbB, Av Mi w`bb wi cvu Kiv n q Q `vg evo Z cv i, Zviv e e v MÖnY Ki jb bv Kb? GKRb mvsevw`k Avevi mb fvr Z ji `vg evovi cökœ, Avg`vwbm~ Î we ` ki Ici Avgv `i wbf ikxjzvi K_v, Avgv `i Amnvq Ae vi K_v evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv

17 Zv jb, mxgvš w` q Zj cvpvi n q hviqvi K_v e jb Zvici, Av ikrb mvsevw`k `kx-we `kx e emvevwyr I evrvinv Ui nvjpvj mvaviy gvbyl ev Sb bv e j e vcvi jv Ôfv jv K i eyws q ejvõi Rb wgwwqv GLb e emvevwyr welqk wi cv U i w` K g bv hvm w` q _vk Z cv i e j AwfgZ `b [01:06:30] mib : Zvi gv b n Q hv NUbv NU Q ` k, m NUbv jv RbMY me bvi eys Z cv i, Zv `i Rb me wrwbm evamg bvi n Z cv i, Zvi Rb Zv `i K eyws q ejvi KvRUv... [01:06:43] D³ mvsevw`k : GBUv n Q Kx, eyws q ejvi Î wgwwqvi f~wgkvb me _ K euvi, KviY... [01:06:47] Av Qv, GBUv Avgv K e jb, GB h ÔeywS q ejvõ, eyws q ejvi Kv bv NUbv `L Z cv Qb? `vg evo e, `vg Kg e, G jv wkš Avgiv huv K ewj ÔKxÕ mb ÔKx-cÖ kœiõ DËi (ÔKxÕ NU Q)? Ô KbÕ NU Q Zv bv-ej j Zv eyws q ejv n jv bv! h Kv bv NUbvB Kb NU Q, Ab Kx NU Z cvi Zv, GiKg Kb NUj, ev Kx Ki j Ab ikg NU e, G jv hw` Avwg eyws q bv-ewj Zvn j evsv bv Mj bv mikg wi cvu wk `L Z cv Qb? 19 Av Q ïay Kvb `vkv b Kx cviqv hvq, Kv_vq Kx wewμ n Q, bzzb g W ji Kx G m Q, bzzb d vk bi Kx G m Q mbme, ZvB bv? KvbUvi Kx `vg, Kv_vq M j Avcwb muv wkb Z cvi eb, muv ci j Avcbv K Kgb `Lv e, Zvi Rb evwb q evwb q g Wj `i K w` q QweUwe Zvjv bv, ZvB bv? [01:07:35] GKUv wecyj cwiez b wkš Kb NU Q? a ib, mvgwmök A _, `ªe g~j Kb ev o? AveQv AveQv kvbv hvq h, GKUv wmwû KU Av Q gv S gv S cwîkvi ev wgwwqvi wi cvu _ K GiKg GKUv AveQv AveQv K_v kvbv hvq e nëi h A_ bwzk cöwμqv jv Av Q mviv c w_ex Z, mb mvgwmök A_ bwzk cöwμqv jvi g a vqx Kv bv e vcvi Av Q wkbv G jv Zv Kv bv bzzb mgm v bv wrwbmc Îi `vg evov wek eqi Av MI Zv evowqj wqqvwk ZI RbmvaviY fymwqj `ªe g~j evovi Kvi Y, ZvB bv? `ªe g~j evovuv AvR Ki w` bi GKUv GB gyn~ Z i Bmz wkš, cöavbz, A_ bxwz welqk wi cvu ej Z evsv Q `vkvb`vwi welqk wi cvwu s gv b, Kv_vq Kx wkb Z-wUb Z cviqv hvq, Kv_vq Kx bzzb `vkvb- UvKvb Lyjj [01:8:26] 19 `y-rb mvsevw`k e jb, Ôbv, mikg wi cvu bvb Õ GKRb mvsevw`k : ÒGBUv Zv bv, m vi! A_ bxwz ej Z Zv GBUv bv, KbvUvB Zv bv Ó mib : [mvsevw`k g nv` qi K_v K mg_ b K i] wvk bv? D³ mvsevw`k : ÒwR, m vi Ó mib : wkš, `uvov Q wkš ev e Zv-B D³ mvsevw`k : Ònü v Avgv `i cwi ek Zv-B Ó [01:08:32] mib : ev R Ui mgq, ev R Ui Av M-c i, Kvb wel qi Ici U v evo e, Kvb wel qi Ici ïé Kg e G jv wb q wkqy wi cvu nq wkš GLv b H ÔeywS q ejvõi NUbv _v K bv eiâ, Avcwb Lqvj Ki j ai Z cvi eb, Lqvj bv-ki j ai Z cvi eb bv Ggb NUbv cöpzi _v K cöpzi PvjvwK _v K cöpzi Avovj-Kiv nq cöpzi jywk q-ivlv nq [01:08:52] wpî 1: cö_g Av jvi ÔA vski gv`vm W we kl msl v Av y Zzwg j²xõ Av y-aveÿy-mvsevw`kzv hgb a ib, GKevi Avwg GiKg `Ljvg, ÒAv y-aveÿy-mgvpvió jlvuvi 20 g a Avwg huv D j L K iwq h, u ov `y ai Ic i mikvi 20 `ªóe : wbdub, 2003 GB ipbvwu ez gvb Av jvpbvi Rb, mgvr-wgwwqv-ms wz evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv

18 U v evwo q Q evov Z hv Q Ggb ai bi GKUv NUbv N UwQj GLb Avgvi fv jv K i g b bvb Zv, ZLb cö_g Av jv- Z wi cvu n jv h, `ya n Q LyeB GKUv AZ vek K wrwbm evsjv ` ki Rb, evsjv ` ki ev Pv `i Rb we kl K i; `ya hv gvu cö qvrb mviv eq i, muv GLv b Drcbœ nq bv; mieivn bvb; ZvB, u ov `y ai `vg hw` e o hvq U v evov bvi Kvi Y Zvn j c i muv Avgv `i ` ki Rb wzki n e GUv h n e GB g g Zviv wi cv U i g a H ÔwbDwRj vû WBwiÕ, wk ÔWv bvõ, GB ikg bvbvb Kv úvwbi Avcbvi hviv ww i±i, KZ v-e w³, Gu `i mv vrkvi wb jb QvU QvU K i Zuviv GB wel q: wbdwrj vû WBwii Agy K e jb h, nü v, `ya GKUv AZ vek K wrwbm, GUv U v gy³ _vkv DwPZ, U v Aš Z Kgv bv DwPZ GB ai bi K_vevZ v Zuviv ej jb 21 [01:09:49] wpî 2: cö_g Av jv, cö_g cvzv, 26 g 2002 GKB m ½ H RvqMvUv Z Avgiv `Ljvg, gv-w`em D`hvwcZ n Q gvw`e m cö_g Av jv- Z weivu K i GKUv cvzv wkï `i h cvzvuv, Ò Mvj vqyuó MvUv c ôvuv gv-w`em D`hvc bi Rb DrmM Kiv n jv Ges MvUv c ôvuv e vck wpîeûj Kvfv ir w` q mvrv bv n jv wbdwrj vû msμvš Avgvi hvezxq we k l Yi Rb, Ges ÒmgKvjxb A bk jl Ki Rb m~î- `wjjó (gvbm, 2002) 21 GB wi cvu Uv wjl Z cö_g Av jv hv `i mv _ Avjvc K i Q Zv `i g a Av Qb wbdwrj vê wg éi e e vcbv cwipvjk gbbyj nv mb, uov `y ai Aci e emvqx mv bvqviv MÖ ci Pqvig vb b~i j Bmjvg wegmwm, uov `y ai Av ik Avg`vwbKviK bm j evsjv `k wjwg U Wi wndg vb wi mvm I Ki cv iu A v dqvi wefv Mi cöavb Gg RyjwdKvi nvmvbb, Avi Wv bv uov `y ai Drcv`bKvix Avijv dzwm BbwMÖwW qèm wgj Kv-i evsjv ` ki Kvw Uª g v brvi Avn g` Kexi (wbdub, 2003) WBwii QweUwe w` q ÒA vski gv w`emó A vski ÔAv y Zzwg j²xõ gv w`em GiKg (HUv I `i weávc bi vmvb) 22 [01:10:23] Zv, A vski GKUv u ov `ya; Zuviv gv-w`e mi MvUv cvzvuv úýi Ki Q; (ZLb g b nq BwUwf wqj) GKz k wuwf Z Zuviv GKUv Abyôvb, gv-w`e mi, úýi Ki Q; gv-w`em wb q GB mg Av jvpbv [I Kg KvÊ] Pj Q; Ges u ov `y ai `vg Kgv bv DwPZ GBUv wb q cö_g Av jv- Z wi cvu n Q GKB m ½ NUbv jv NU Q ev R Ui Av kcv k Ryb gv mi NUbv 26 k Ryb 23 bvwk, bv, g b bvb Avgvi mwvkfv e... hvk ev R Ui Av M-c i G ai bi NUbv Zvi gv b wkš cö_g Av jvi ^v_ Uv cwi vi cö_g Av jvi m ½ GB ai bi u ov`ya- Kv úvwb jvi weávc bi wewbgq Av Q úýiwk ci [ev c ô cvlkzvi] m úk Av Q Ges mb RvqMv _ KB Ô ov `ya GKUv AZ vek K wrwbmõ GB e j wi cvu Kiv [A úó] Av Qv wkš [ m wi cv U ] Avgv `i h Mi i dvg jv, Avgv `i e w³mz D ` v M, bvbvfv e Mi i Pvlevm BZ vw` evov bv hvq wkbv, `ya Drcv`b evov bv hvq wkbv [ mme K_v bvb] Avgv `i g Zvb ` k `ya hw` Drcv`b Ki Z bv-cvwi, Kv_vq cviv hv e? GKUv wkívwqz ` k `ya Drcv`b Kiv hvq A bk ewk, Avgv `i GLv b n Z cv i bv? GLv b wkš Gme Kv bv K_v bvb u ov`ya L Z n e ewk K i, GUv n Q Zuv `i cö bv`bv A_P RvwZms Ni û [WHO] ev ^v -ms vb LyeB mȳ úó civgk, `xn Kvj _ K Zviv Póv K i hv Q, e j hv Q, u ov `ya n Q Am e wzki GKUv wrwbm, AZ š SzuwKc~Y GKUv wrwbm, cvi j muv eü K i `Iqv nvk Aš Z wbw` ó e qm ch š GKUv ev Pv K muv L Z bv- `Iqv, nvivg K i `Iqv nvk G jv Zv `i cömwμckb [01:12:01] Zvn j ` Lb h, wi cvu c o Ic i-ic i wk Qy evsv hv e bv Kx [Kiv] n q Q eiâ g b n e h, evsjv ` ki jv Kiv hb `ya L Z cvq, ÔAvgvi mš vb hb _v K `y afv ZÕ GUvB cö_g Av jvi AvKv v GUvB g b n e wkš NUbv G Kev ib Gi wecixz, ZvB bv? [01:12:20] 22 cvzvi wk ivbvguv wqj: ÒA vski gv`vm W we kl msl v Av y Zzwg j²xó (wpî 1 `ªóe ) 23 Avm j 26 k g 2002 Zvwi Li cö_g Av jv cwîkvi cö_g cvzvi wi cvu GUv: Òg` wmmv i Ui m ½ GK KvZv i u ov `ya: wejvmcy wbqš Yi bv g cywó msmö n cöwzeükzvó evrv ii hy M wgwwqv `x vqb-cö KŠk ji Av_ mvgvwrk cöwμqv