COLE. * the percentage of lean cuts increase a8 the length of'body increa6es. t1

Transcription

1 96 THE HOG DRESSlNG PfRCfhfTAGE PROBLEM J We COLE U N I V E R S I T Y OF T E N N E S S E E 0 0 I ~ 0 ~ ~ ' Last year a t t h e 6 t h Reciprocal Meat Conference I mde a statement t h a t we as meats men could "ride herd," s o t o speak, on carcass evaluation work i n order t h a t the type pendulum would not swing t o o f a r e i t h e r way A t t h e present time, a t t h e National Barrow Show and a t our leading hog type conferences, a method i s used whereby l i v e weights a r e adjusted t o the weight of the G I tract This adjusted l i v e weight i s then divided i n t o the chilled carcass weight t o get dressing percentage To be more e x p l i c i t, the weight of t h e G I tract i s made up of' the Bung, both large and small intestines, stomch and a l l contents, r u f f l e f a t and pancreas, and is subtracted f r o m t h e preslaughter l i v e weight This gives what has been termed as "empty body weight" Twelve and one-half per cent of t h i s empty body weight i s added back t o enlpty body weight t o give adjusted l i v e weight In t h i s paper, I propose t o show t h a t t h i s method of carcass evaluation gives d i s t i n c t advantage t o the longer hogs with l e s s f a t and a decided disadvantage t o shorter, f a t t e r hogs I hasten t o add t h a t no attempt is being made here t o encourage the production of short, lardy hogs The producer should be given the true picture, insofar a0 possible, as t o the carcass value of varying kinds of pork carcas8es A s early as 1929 Scott of Purdue made t h e observation t h a t fat thickness had conaiderable e f f e c t upon yields In workers at Oregon, including Mr A W Oliver, stated t h a t ''chunky" type hogs dressed s l i g h t l y higher than "big" type The chief of the B A I i n 1935 reported that length of carcas8 was a good index t o dressing per cent and cutting yields Bull of I l l i n o i s, in the same year, stated that chuffy hogs dressed somewhat higher than intermediate o r rangy hogs In 1937 Hankins and Hiner, i n comparing Landrace and Poland China hogs t o Durocs, found t h e Durocs t o have higher dressing percentage and thicker backfats It was a l s o pointed out t h a t t h e Landrace were longer i n body Hankins and E l l i s i n 1939 reported t h a t dressing percentage was materially affected by fatness based on 5,000 normally fed hogs Again i n 1940 Eiankins reported that dressing percentage was highest with small (chuffy) type carcasses than e i t h e r i n t e r mediate o r large type Hazel of Iowa made this statement recently" * the percentage of lean cuts increase a8 the length of'body increa6es t1 D r Craft's l e t t e r t o the Conference i n 1949 states t h a t "with hog buying based on dressing percentage, highest prices a r e paid f o r excessively f a t hogs, accordingly hogs yielding less lard and highly acceptable lean cuts are somewhat penalized'' I n the Home1 booklet describing t h e i r carcass grade many f a c t o r s being and weight method of buying, t h i s statement i f found equal, the f a t t e r the hog, the more he w i l l yield i n many cases, hogs t h a t a r e discounted f o r being overfat yield enough t o offset the discount" - " All of these references plus many, many more point up the f a c t t h a t shorter, f a t t e r hogs have higher dressing percentages than longer, leaner kinds I n f a c t, t h e whole U S D A b a s i s f o r objective grades of pork carcasses i s more o r l e s s based on t h i s assuaptfon, combined with the f a c t t h a t the longer kinds produce a higher percentage of primal cuts We do hear now and then of a hog o r an occasional group of hogs t h a t not only have superior carcassed but a l s o

2 97 have high dressing percentages We hope it will be possible through breeding and selection t o reduce fatness of hogs without sacrificing dressing percentage t fast year i n our conference Mr Hankins referred t o a piece of work a t B e l t s v i l l e involving 40 hogs of about 225 lbe that varied widely as t o type, fatness, macling, e t c Empty body weights were determined and dressing percentages were figured on that b a s i s with l i t t l e o r no difference i n dressing percentage A t the U T Experiment Station, the following results were obtained, based on over 270 hogs of rangy, intermediate, and chuffy types and handled the 8ame as t o feeding, shrink, slaughter procedures, etc Table 1 Mean Meaeurement of Values Depth of Che e t Chuffy Intermediate R&Dgy Backfat Thickness USD A Grade Length / ch-# 1 # 7, kdium Ch# 2 Table 2 Percentage of Mi8 cellane ous Cuts (Based on K i l l Weight) Type - Spareribs Lean Total Viscera T r i m Fat (31 Head Tract Tongue Heart Liver Feet Tail Kidney Chuffy Intermediate WngY 27- With the inf'omtion from these tables and Borne of the data i n t h e l i t e r a t u r e, here i e a hypothetical case baaed on the National Barrow Show technique, using 200 lb live hbgs Ae sumed Dressing Percentage - Type Tract Ad jus ted (UT Data) - Chilled Carcass Weight Adjusted Live Weight GI Adjusted Dressing Percent Short (chuffy) Intermediate _ I _ -

3 98 You can immediately see t h a t when yield i s based on an "equal f i l l " o r empty body weight basis, that dressing percentages a r e about the same This indicates t o m~ t h a t most of the a c t u a l difference i n dressing percent can be accowted f o r i n such thing6 as viscera, heart, l i v e r and head I bel i e v e we should be very skeptical with any method of evaluation where t h e viscera i s tampered with A6 f a r back a8 1934, with c a t t l e, Black, Semple and Lush observed w h a t appears t o be significant differences i n f u l l stomachs and i n t e s t i n e weights between English breeds and Brahman crosses with t h e Brahman crosses having lower percentage of t h e i r k i l l weight made up of these portions of the viscera More recently, D r Varwick (Texas) reported highly significant differences between paunch contents of Hereford and F1 crosses with B r a w n as part of the cross A t Tennessee, we have found highly signifi c a n t correlations of C I t r a c t with chest cavity depth of pork carcasses - Certainly " f i l l " i s a complicating f a c t o r i n the percentage of viscera However, based on these data, I would say it i s wrong t o as8ume that f i l l is the only f a c t o r that accounts f o r difference i n weights of viscera I n other words, it is not correct t o assume that a l l hogs have the sane percentage of GI t r a c t When you consider that a t t h e National Barrow Show i n 1953, the thickness of f a t back on hogs weighing from 200 t o 220 l b s varied from 10 inch t o 2,4 inches and t h e length of t h e carcass varied from 275 inches t o 320 inches, there probably were f a c t o r s other than " f i l l " that affected dressing percentage It is well t o keep in mind t h a t the average i n yield of primal cuts of the longer hogs can be somewhat o f f s e t by a s l i g h t l y higher dressing percentage This statement can be substantiated by several research projects I have offered no solution as t o the problem of " f i l l " at the various places where carcass evaluation is used f o r educational purposes However, I hope you can see the possible danger of producers and other people using t h i s "empty body" technique i n steering people t o go t o o f a r i n the direction of long hogs MR KLINE: Now t o lead the discussion, we w i l l l e t Mr Wheeler of Clemsoa Agricultural College, take charge WHEELER: You have heard Bill Cole's remarks r e l a t i v e t o t h i s subject and have seen t h e data that he has presented, Due t o EL l i t t l e mixup in address, B i l l mailed t h i s information t o me several days ago I understand but it did not get t o me So I didn't know what he was going t o pyesent u n t i l this morning As B i l l has already indicated, what he has given i s not necessarily the opinion of our conrmittee As you gather from B i l l ' s statement he i s not e n t i r e l y i n agreement with the procedure f o r adjusting f o r f i l l He has pointed out the reasons he i a not i n agreenent with t h a t procedure and has quoted quite a b i t of data along that l i n e I t h i n k he wanted t o bring t h i s before you t o get your reactions No doubt some of you have collected data which he has not 8een and have some ideas and suggestions along t h i s l i n e, I be-

4 99 l i e v e t h a t B i l l would w e l c o i ~any suggestiane o r comments that you have, whether you agree o r disagree with h i a feelings r e l a t i v e t o t h i s matter So t h e floor i s now open f o r any comments, MR C O B : I should like t o say that I have been i n written contact with Mr Fleer He knows my views, and he is open-minded about it, but he s t i l l f e e l s that he i s correcting more errors than he i s introducing I am on the other side I believe he ie introducing more e r r o r s than he i s correctibg But, as I said before, I have not offered any solution t o the p r a b l e m I understand t h a t these hogs a r e weighed one day, usually on Wednesday a t six-thirty So t h a t there are possible differences i n fill But I believe strongly, based on our findings, t h a t there i s very good p o s s i b i l i t y of giving t o o much advantage t o t h e long hog We r e a l i z e that t h e t o p barrow was valued a t $2422 and the second one a t $2421, and a s h i f t of even one per cent i n dressing percent might s h i f t a hog i n two o r three places MR KASTELIC: I m u s t rise t o raiee 8ome points about t h e National Barrow Show selection of hogs I was i n charge of the 1953 National Barrow Show with Mr P h i l l i p Anderson who i s here I might s t a t e that t h e way it was done is we f i r s t went i n t o t h e coolers and made subj e c t i v e evaluation of the carcass Kithout knowing what the dressing percentage was We divided t'ne choice No 1 i n t o approximately three groups, depending upon backf'at increments, one 1 plue and one 2 plusses When that c l a s s i f i c a t i o n had been made and agreed upon by the three judges we then obtained the data t o which M r Cole ha6 referred I might s t a t e here that I am not i n disagreement with h i s argument, t h a t t h e data i n the l i t e r a t u r e substantiates some of it I j u s t am not too 6ure how far you can go with that argument But t h e fact remains t h a t after the subjective evaluations were made only t h e hogs t h a t rated subjectively, based on the judges' opinions, 1 plus were cansidered in t h e f i n a l places, and there were animals that dressed very well that d i d n ' t place because of lack of conformation There were animals i n there that didn't place because t h e b e l l i e s were too thin The hams were too l i g h t, That was a part of the picture In Fremont, Nebraska, the 8ame technic was used on 319 carcassesr I have that data I w i l l be happy t o submit it t o anyone who i s i n t e r ested I am sure thtlt the Hormel Compny would be pleased t o allow me t o do that The same technic was used there Subjective f i r s t, This i s a deciding point MR WHEELER: MR C O U : Do you care t o say anything further, B i l l? I haven't anything more t o say than w h a t he said MR WHEELER: Is it your f e e l i n g that probably there i s more difference i n t h e f i l l than there i s in the t r a c t i t s e l f? I am not t o o c l e a r what the basis of t h e argument i s i n that direction MR COW: I have hi6 l e t t e r somewhere i n that folder He j u s t says t h a t he i s open-minded on it and he is interested in comments from t h i s group a d is w i l l i n g t o do Eqything that is workable

5 100 You cannot present something that is too complicated and cannot He says, "We f'ully r e a l i z e t h a t organs such as the l i v e r and heart w i l l vary between hogs of t h e same l i v e o r carcass weight, j u s t as they vary i n s i z e of stomach, weight of intestines, e t c We do need, however, t o agree on a plan that i s simple and p r a c t i c a l enough t o permit adoption by gackinghouse crews a t a speed t h a t i s not far removed from normal operations The plan we use at the National Barrow Show seems t o comply with these requirements a6 w e l l as anything e also we have been able t o contact W e know t h a t yield i s important W know that there a r e other factor8," e t c He says, "We f e e l we are correcting far more e r r o r that we may be introducing with our method, crude as it may s e e m mind is open, however, and I an i n t e r e s t e d i n any system that i s workable and W i l l more accurately determine dressing yield It be done i n a packinghouse cent? MR WHEELER: D o e s he indicate how he a r r i v e s a t the 123 per MR COLE: M r Wheeler, as t o the 124 per cent, some of the p o p l e i n Minnesota probably can say I don't know how many he k i l l e d, but he k i l l e d many hogs He weighed t h e G1 tract, and he f i r s t came out i n 1949 with a figure of 24 pounds I personally haven't found many hogs that had 24 pounds of viscera He must have done it on a full weight basis I cannot f i g u r e it out otherwise Then he arrived at t h e 124 per cent figure later That eeems t o be a l i t t l e closer t o it rather than just giving a s t r a i g h t 24-pound adjusted weight ' There are many people i n t h i s room who have served on these committees at t h e National Barrow shows MR MACKINTOSH: That o r i g i n a l weight deduction w&6 based on a nuuiber of hogs I don't r e c a l l how many they ran detailed data on a t Austin Also several hundred hogs came out of the Nebraska laboratory, a l l handled by Loeffel, and that work had nothing t o do with the other, except t h a t t h e information was available and they coincided very closely That was the basis of t h e o r i g i n a l deduction However, I: might say t h a t I euppose a l l of you know that if you hold hogs off feed two hours you can make a difference of eight pounds i n the weight You can find a difference of eight pounds i n the contents of the stomach alone Take a hog that i s j u s t off straight feed and one t h a t has been held off two hours You can a l s o f i n d a material difference i n t h e weight of the l i v e r as the r e s u l t of holding them off feed MR KEMP: Is t h a t 124 per cent GI t r a c t o r t o t a l viscera? MR COZJE: GI tract Mr Wheeler, I should l i k e t o say one thing about the dressing percentage formula which i s t h e purchased weight subtracting from it t h e chilled carcass weight and t h e difference i s made up of cooler shrinkage and o f f a l Is that approximately so? Now what things would contribute t o difference i n dressing percentage What things could possibly contribu t e t o difference i n dressing percentage? Certainly t h e contents of the G I t r a c t would have the biggest bearing, but the point I am making i s

6 101 that hogs may have, according t o our data, and according t o some other data, a difference i n a b i l i t y t o hold feed or the feed stays i n t h e i r GI t r a c t longer than i n others Fecal markers have been used that have shown differences of 24 t o 60 hours f r o m the time they were fed and t h e time they showed up So it looks l i k e there are individual differences i n hogs the 8ame as there are i n humans, So my point i e t h a t the biggest 6ource of the difference, if there i s a difference i n dressing percent probably l i e s in t h e hog's a b i l i t y t o r e t a i n o r t o expel t h e feed i n the GI t r a c t MR RUST: B i l l, w h a t would you recommend that we use as a standard for our rates o r do you have any recommendations? MR C0IZ: I don't have any garticular recommendation other than t o t r y t o standardize t h e feeding and shrinkage problems as much as possible It might man holding the hogs over another day Hogs come i n t o the National Barrow show on Sunday and are not slaughtered u n t i l Wednesday I think it was Tuesday t h i s year They could be weighed out maybe a day e a r l y and fed a day If t h i s data that we have gathered i n Tennessee i s correct and I believe it i s do you see where you can give a d i s t i n c t advantage t o a long hog? What the people a t the Wtional Barrow show a r e saying and if you believe t h i s I have no argument i s that all hogs t r a c t have the same percentwe of (31 MR, BUTLER: When you s t a r t taking an average backfat thickness and basing your y i e l d of lean cuts on the average and you 8ee t h e differences i n the shaps of backfat and you know t h a t we measure them a t only three points and get an average, I think you get even more e r r o r there than you do i n difference of yield, B i l l W e tried t h i s same system on six o r eight hogs The hog that won by t h i s system was a certain breed But I t o l d the other man, "Yours looks l i k e a better carca88" I cut the two hogs, and the one that came out second actually cut aut $135 a hundredweight more MR F W U : The f a c t is t h a t a t any of these liveetock shows, and especially hog shows, t h e herdsmen who own the hogs o r have charge of them (and t h i s includes college herdsmen, too) tamper with the weight of those hogs about as much as possible, and Carroll introduced a complicated factor, 80 that no matter what they did with the hogs, Carroll was going t o iron it out so there would be no use tampering w i t h them B i l l, if you bring them i n a day early the only way ;you can control them i s t o put an iron fence around them and have one man i n charge of feeding So there i s a f a c t o r involved there which they t h i n k i s ironed out and there i s no u8e messing around with these carca86 hides MR WHEEIER: Does anyone e l s e have any contribution o r discussion, agreement o r disagreement with B i l l? Butler was cmplaining before dimer t h a t we Em PIERCE: could not g e t any f i r e i n t h i s meeting and t h a t we could not get any disagreement I know very l i t t l e about aof the things that have been discussed, but I believe t h a t the correlation between backfat and yield of' %@an c u t s is considerably higher than mentioned e a r l i e r &b

7 10'2 MR COLE: No, it was GI t r a c t and depth of chest MR PIERCE: I used t h e wrong correlation, but anyhow a correl a t i o n coefficient of about 84 We a r e getting some 9 with ~ O W S, I believe, but t h a t i s a rather high correlation between backfat thickness and yield of lean cuts, and it might even be higher than the correlation between the accuracy of your knife as you cut up t w o hogs I n other words, there i s a l o t of human e r r o r involved i n t h i s thlng So it may not be s t r i c t l y a difference i n xwasurement of backfat MR BUTLER: How did you get it without human e r r o r? MR PIERCE: We 6 t i J l got something l i k e 8 W e are accounting f o r 64 per cent of the variation We still have 36 per cent i n there But we cut more than two hogs B m : I a m glad t o g e t something started The point is that we have t o decide and give a prize t o one among a few hogs, though J u s t as he pointed out, it was $2422 against $2421 If you are going t o set up a system and i n v i t e a l o t of people t o bring hogs in and give prizes, it should be p r e t t y good MR KASTELIC: I should l i k e t o ask Mr Pierce about t h e percentage of lean cuts For certain kinds of hogs the word "lean" should have quotation rcarks around it because I know of no way of trimming them t o get lean cuts You are correlating weight with average backfat thickness, not lean meat i n every case Joe way MR PIERCE: You have injected a new element i n t h i s discussion, Lean cuts, of course, r e f e r t o the four primal cuts trimmed t h e same They are not a l l the same leanness, of course MR KASTELIC: You can have a picnic t h a t has 50 per cent fat in It as compred with one with 25 per cent MR PIERCE: I Say that that i s d e f i n i t e l y another f a c t o r here, and t h i s i s merely on the cuts that a r e a l l trimmed the same way and t h e same cuts They are not all the 68me chemical fat composition, of course MR WHEELER: Any f u r t h e r discussion? MR BRATZLER: 1 wa& not going t o discuss t h i s subject, but I think we should t & e a l l the shows with a grain of salt A l l of us have worked on committees We have t o pick a winner, and t h i s one-cent d i f f e r ence j u s t happened t o come out t h i s way Personally I voted f o r the No 2' hog I think one other person here voted along with me, but we were outvoted and 60 t h i s hog was i n second place because he was one cent less The matter of pricing these cuts, of course, w i l l influence your r e s u l t s a l o t We had t o u6e the schedule that they were using a t that time and we did t h e best we could But I would not get t o o concerned about t h e i r methods at the National Barrow show It is a very good show M? COLE: Mr Wheeler, I have one observation The 38th placed carcass was Chester White 296 inches and 18 backfat, he dressed,

8 according t o the adjusted l i v e weight, 706 per cent On the other hand, the first placed pig was the Yorkshire He was 308 inches A l i t t l e mer an inch longer He had 14 backfat, and he dressed a per cent higher If that i s t r u e, then a l l t h i s data about t h e correlation of backfat and dressed percentege does not mean much i a the point I am getting at If there had been a chance f o r that Chester White t o have dreased a half per cent lower or a h a l f per cent higher and t h e Yorkshire a half per cent lower, you can see t h a t poeitions would have changed considerably MR SULZBACHER: e,cole, how m c h difference i n G I t r a c t have you fauud per inch of weight You spoke about long ones and chuffy ones and about t h e ones that are too long, but I d i d n ' t get the difference MR COLE: Well, I don't think we correlated with length We of course, i n t o type before they were slaughtered, We d i d correlate the chest depth, however, which might be an explanation f o r did divide them, som? of these longer hogs dressing high because they probably have shallow chests along wlth it W e have k i l l e d hogs t h a t had such small chest c a v i t i e s o r abdominal c a v i t i e s that they didn't have room f o r b i g G,I t r a c t s I think you have k i l l e d them, too I have pointed out t o students and staff members many times how extremely small t h i s cavity i e in some of these very short, l a d y hogs They s t i l l had the weight They had it on the outside in t h e form of fat m PIERCE: 30 8ome 0 - B i l l, did you feed your hog6 t o a certain weight? MR COLE: W e had six d i f f e r e n t weight groups 155, 185, 205, 245, and a l l that We had about MR KLfNE: B i l l, would you be i n favor of placing t h e hogs on t h e rail without eeeing any figures on dressing percentage? important * MR COLE: I don't believe yau can Dressing percentage f a t o o MR DEATAERAGE : I don't know anything about pork except t h a t I had some awfully good pork f o r dinner I would l i k e t o say if you are only weighing your hogs t o one pound you certainly cannot make your decision on a cent, In other words, if you are weighing your hogs 200 and you can only weigh and t e l l the difference between 200 and 201, i f t h a t is your least accurate measurement, then the best you can possibly do would be on a 10-cent basis on a $20 hog MR PIERCE: I should l i k e t o vote f o r what he suggested here a minute ago I like that idea, 1-8 up at Austin about a month ago when we had a contest class and we had just such a problem The thinnest hog i n the class, which was 8,1130 one of the l i g h t e s t ones, turned up with about 3 per cent, the highest dressing percentage of anything there, MR COLE: Based on what? MR PIERCE: I presume they figured the yield With that s o r t of variation i n dressing percentage, I think we might get f u r t h e r and not even worry about going t o t h e trouble of cutting any hogs, if we l e t some of you fellows who have had a l o t of experience determining cut-outs and

9 104 r e l a t i n g them t o values, place them on the rail "hat i s the way they do i n Chicago i n t h i s carcass contest, and a f t e r observing it a few years I think It is good I am not t o o Bure t h a t the end r e s u l t i s n ' t j u s t about as accurate as we are getting i n t h e other I certainly think t h a t we should not decide the winner on a difference i n value of one cent, and that i s certainly always going t o happen as long a s you use that f i n e r yardstick MR KLINE: I want t o make Just one more comment before we wind This last spring I had t h e opportunity t o work on two carcass conteats, One of them at Davenport, The hogs came i n l a t e i n the morning because it was rainy weather, and i n weighing the visceras of those hogs a l o t of the visceras weighed only 9, 1 0 and 11 pounds So with that i n mind we decided not t o take i n t o account dressing percentage We j u s t placed the carcasses on t h e i r merits as they hung on the r a i l I was of the opinion t h a t the committee d i d a p r e t t y good job t h i s thing up A t Milwaukee this spring we handled it p r e t t y much the aame way Even though a t both places we had a stand-out f o r our top carcass t o begin with, with the e r r o r involved perhaps on an adjusted l i v e weight basis, I wa8 of the opinion t h a t it is best t o disregard dressing percentage and j u s t place the carcass on i t s merits as you Gee it on t h e rail MR COLE: I 11dBUnder6tOOd you a while ago t o put an evaluation on it I thought you s a i d MR KLINE: No, j u a t placing, MR WHEELER: Any f u r t h e r discu6eion? Ed, we'll turn it back t o you MR KLINE: Well, I hope t h i s enthusiasm does not break down before the evening i s over I think we have something here t o which we should give f'urther thought I know the Pork Carcass Evaluation Committee w i l l take up where B i l l has l e f t off and carry t h i s work f u r t h e r and perhaps have more t o report t o you next year So without f u r t h e r ado f w i l l turn it back t o Chairman Walters C R A m : WALTERS: We appreciate those thought -provoking remarks from your cormnittee, Ed, A s you have indicated, t h e discussion w i l l probably continue pro and con A t t h i s time we are going t o cast our b a l l o t s f o r Chairman of t h e Executive Committee f o r next year Thoee elected t h i s afternoon t o that committee f o r next year were: Peareon, Wanderstock, Kline, Soule and Aunan, Slips of paper have been passed around Write t h e name of one person only f o r Chairman of the Executive Committee While t h e ballot6 a r e being cast, we w i l l go r i g h t ahead w i t h t h e introductory remarks concerning the next committee which i s t o report, namely, the Consumer Education Conunittee This i s another new committee appointed during t h e year j u s t past, a committee t h a t was appointed f o r the specific purpose of bringing t o us i n organized form

10 105 ideas which a r e new, which r e l a t e t o w h a t the consumer wants i n t h e way e have appointed a6 chairman of that committee Mr E D of meat W F a m l l of Michigan State CoUege Serving with him on the colmnittee have been Professor Ziegler, Professor Naumann, an8 Professor Aunan; Professor Vantier Noot, Professor Kline, and Professor King So Buck, we'll turn the meeting over t o you a t t h i a time f o r t h e report of your committee, MR, FARWELL: Thank you very much, bwell You probably know that the reason f o r the existence of t h i s committee i s because among the suggestions that you submitted last year I believe there were more f o r consumer education information i n our reciprocal meat conference program t4an anything else, and f o r t h a t reason we set this committee up, The Extension Committee t h i s morning did a wonderful job of inhroducing the subject f o r UB, They talked quite a b i t about consumer education, and I think i f there had been time f o r discussion following t h e i r report they would have gotten i n t o our subject some more, We are r e a l l y not saying that it is our subject any more t h a n it is t h e i r subject Actually it is a part, of extension It i s a l s o a research problem, So we have t o have extension and research working together in t h i s matter of consumer education I think it has enough ramlfications that we needed t o put a committee t o work on i t, W e have another dual responsibility and that i s t o work with the economists, and I am sure t h a t quite a b i t i s going t o be said about working with t h e economists, Well, l e t ' s get i n t o t h e program To introduce our p a r t of the program we asked a man who has done considerable work aut i n t h e field, a t Cornel1 and i n New York s t a t e W e asked George Wellington if he would take part in our panel tonight, and he ie going t o diecuss as an introduction t o the subject, "Where Do We Stand In Consumer Education?" I r e a l l y f e l t t h a t Roy Snyder gave on where we stand i n consumer education UB an awfully nice preview